The first two rules are there for balance reasons. Otherwise there'd be almost no reason to ever buy a powerfist or shoot an HQ with a missle launcher instead of with a plasma gun. Also the partial hits are there for a reason. They simulate shrapnel very well. The not seeing through the trees is the only thing that I can understand simply because it makes sense. The worst "house" rules I've seen was that size 1 terrain blocks LoS to all models. I picked up and walked out on that game when my opponent insisted that a line of barbed wire blocked LoS to his land raider less than 3 inches from a multimelta dread. It's the only time I've ever not played a complete game.
Stores and certain rules
I have found, around my area, that alot of clubs/game stores I go to disregard or ignore certain rules for some reason. I also have a few friends from different states that play in official GW stores...and they say the same thing, that not all rules are followed or alot are ignored. I asked around but couldn't get a straight answer from owners or employees. They just tell me I'm wrong, when I'm looking right in the book. A few of these rules that just is a blatant disregard is
Instant Kill rules (getting hit with a weapon double your toughness apparantly does not instant kill)
Template weapons ( counting only the model targeted as 100% hit and everything else only partial when it's...well you know how it works.)
Or that forest do only block LOS if you have more than 6 inches of forest in front of them. The rule is that you cannot shoot into more than 6 inches of forest, not you can shoot THRU forest of less than 6. As far as I know, if you are in fact on the opposite side of forest and not actually in it, it blocks LOS for basic models. I may be wrong on this one...but this is how I read it.
The rest aren't really as huge as issue as this, they are more like rules that don't come into play as often but still are wrong.
I am wondering why in the world, not just one but a few different shops, do this. Is it their own house rules? And if so, for what? Why bother with house rules? the rules in the rule book were designed for a reason and when I put an army list together I expect those rules I used to create that list to be followed.
I considered that a few of these rules, especially the 3 examples I gave, can really irritate players. Nothing worse than getting your command squad blasted by a battle cannon and 90% of that squad gone in one shot. Perhaps they discourage rules that might discourage the more casual gamer to play, or make players feel they just didn't waste that 50 bucks they just spent. Maybe it's to be a little more "player friendly" or whatever. I'm all for playing friendly games and not using cheese...but to in my opinion, if this is the case, this is going too far. Why not just make up their own rules if they are gonna disregard these?
I would like some opinions on the matter, or if anyone else has experienced stores/clubs doing this let me know so I feel better about my situation.
Edit: I hope I didn't break any forum rules by giving away those three rules, I don't think I did since it's not point costs and stats, and I apologize if this isn't the right board for this topic.
Instant Kill rules (getting hit with a weapon double your toughness apparantly does not instant kill)
Template weapons ( counting only the model targeted as 100% hit and everything else only partial when it's...well you know how it works.)
Or that forest do only block LOS if you have more than 6 inches of forest in front of them. The rule is that you cannot shoot into more than 6 inches of forest, not you can shoot THRU forest of less than 6. As far as I know, if you are in fact on the opposite side of forest and not actually in it, it blocks LOS for basic models. I may be wrong on this one...but this is how I read it.
The rest aren't really as huge as issue as this, they are more like rules that don't come into play as often but still are wrong.
I am wondering why in the world, not just one but a few different shops, do this. Is it their own house rules? And if so, for what? Why bother with house rules? the rules in the rule book were designed for a reason and when I put an army list together I expect those rules I used to create that list to be followed.
I considered that a few of these rules, especially the 3 examples I gave, can really irritate players. Nothing worse than getting your command squad blasted by a battle cannon and 90% of that squad gone in one shot. Perhaps they discourage rules that might discourage the more casual gamer to play, or make players feel they just didn't waste that 50 bucks they just spent. Maybe it's to be a little more "player friendly" or whatever. I'm all for playing friendly games and not using cheese...but to in my opinion, if this is the case, this is going too far. Why not just make up their own rules if they are gonna disregard these?
I would like some opinions on the matter, or if anyone else has experienced stores/clubs doing this let me know so I feel better about my situation.
Edit: I hope I didn't break any forum rules by giving away those three rules, I don't think I did since it's not point costs and stats, and I apologize if this isn't the right board for this topic.
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Thats pretty lame, those three rules are all extremely important rules that affect every single game. Making the rules "player friendly" is absurd. This is war! It isn't a game, those Imperial Guardsmen on the table are fighting for the defense of their planet and their lives, nay, their very souls!
The armies are designed and balanced with rules like templates and line of sight in mind. Catachans lose their meaning if any old joe can shoot through a thick jungle as if it isn't there. Meltas go down the toilet if a lowly shrub will save a Land Raider from brilliant death. Guard suddenly won't know what to do when their main strength, the ability to blow things to kindom come with blasts, is nuetered to just 1 hit and x partials.
The armies are designed and balanced with rules like templates and line of sight in mind. Catachans lose their meaning if any old joe can shoot through a thick jungle as if it isn't there. Meltas go down the toilet if a lowly shrub will save a Land Raider from brilliant death. Guard suddenly won't know what to do when their main strength, the ability to blow things to kindom come with blasts, is nuetered to just 1 hit and x partials.
I can see why things like instant death are ignored, take me for example, my main army is space wolves 13th company, I get no tanks at all and fear the day when my wolf lord is targeted by a battle cannon, its just a risk I have to take.
I understand about disregarding it for more casual play but it kind of defeats the object of manouvering and strategy, if I did not fear instant death many battle may have come out differently.
The rules are as a whole very balanced and make games fair and enjoyable,disregarding rules that rarely come into to play is acceptable, but possibly battle changing one I feel must be stuck to without fail.
I understand about disregarding it for more casual play but it kind of defeats the object of manouvering and strategy, if I did not fear instant death many battle may have come out differently.
The rules are as a whole very balanced and make games fair and enjoyable,disregarding rules that rarely come into to play is acceptable, but possibly battle changing one I feel must be stuck to without fail.
It's hard enough to decipher the actual rules without stores deciding to change them. Personally, if they don't follow the rules as printed in the book I wouldn't bother playing. There are many rules I don't agree with, but they are the rules we have to live by.
#1 - Instant Kill - There is no good reason why this rule should be ignored. Sometimes this may be a vital part of your strategy for killing a multi-wound model.Loestal said:I have found, around my area, that alot of clubs/game stores I go to disregard or ignore certain rules for some reason. I also have a few friends from different states that play in official GW stores...and they say the same thing, that not all rules are followed or alot are ignored. I asked around but couldn't get a straight answer from owners or employees. They just tell me I'm wrong, when I'm looking right in the book. A few of these rules that just is a blatant disregard is
Instant Kill rules (getting hit with a weapon double your toughness apparantly does not instant kill)
Template weapons ( counting only the model targeted as 100% hit and everything else only partial when it's...well you know how it works.)
Or that forest do only block LOS if you have more than 6 inches of forest in front of them. The rule is that you cannot shoot into more than 6 inches of forest, not you can shoot THRU forest of less than 6. As far as I know, if you are in fact on the opposite side of forest and not actually in it, it blocks LOS for basic models. I may be wrong on this one...but this is how I read it.
The rest aren't really as huge as issue as this, they are more like rules that don't come into play as often but still are wrong.
I am wondering why in the world, not just one but a few different shops, do this. Is it their own house rules? And if so, for what? Why bother with house rules? the rules in the rule book were designed for a reason and when I put an army list together I expect those rules I used to create that list to be followed.
I considered that a few of these rules, especially the 3 examples I gave, can really irritate players. Nothing worse than getting your command squad blasted by a battle cannon and 90% of that squad gone in one shot. Perhaps they discourage rules that might discourage the more casual gamer to play, or make players feel they just didn't waste that 50 bucks they just spent. Maybe it's to be a little more "player friendly" or whatever. I'm all for playing friendly games and not using cheese...but to in my opinion, if this is the case, this is going too far. Why not just make up their own rules if they are gonna disregard these?
I would like some opinions on the matter, or if anyone else has experienced stores/clubs doing this let me know so I feel better about my situation.
Edit: I hope I didn't break any forum rules by giving away those three rules, I don't think I did since it's not point costs and stats, and I apologize if this isn't the right board for this topic.
#2 - Template weapons - The reason you take template weapons is to be able to take out a group of models with one hit. The flame template specifically counts all partially covered models as being hit.
#3 - Shooting through area terrain - If you allow shooting through area terrain then why even have it on the table?
These stores sound like they suck. House rules are fine for the many grey areas and gaps in GW's often poorly written rules, but the example you gave are all very clear and easy to understand. I almost always play games at either my home or my friends. On occasion do go to a couple of local stores (independent not GW thank god!) and have never run into such blatent changes to the rules of 40k. If we are playing with friends we follow our own house rules, but if we were playing "locals" we would play by theirs as long as they didn't contradict the BBB.
Someone in my gaming group once said that at the store he used to go to, they had a house rule that was +1 to hit any unpainted model.
I thought it was kinda commical, and was used as an emphasis to paint models, but I just think the problem of working out partially painted squads would just be too daunting.
I thought it was kinda commical, and was used as an emphasis to paint models, but I just think the problem of working out partially painted squads would just be too daunting.
edit: Woops, double post.
Just do this: if the majority is unpainted, you get the modifier. 
Nah, then you get people sticking mixed painted squads together to get them counted as painted (these 3 black one, 2 blues and a red are on squad with the 3 unpainted, and this squad over here of 2 reds,a blue, and a black along with 4 unpainted are another squad).Ebon Hand said:Just do this: if the majority is unpainted, you get the modifier.
My main pet peeve with my area is they classify terrain horribly. If you are within 2" of it, you get it, but you use MEV for shooting, so terrain doesn't block LOS except over the actual model, and only then if you are higher than them (as in actually higher, not in taller terrain). Just boggles me.
As to the insta kill-I'd just pick up my gear, grab any of my friends that I brought, publicly inform them that these people ignore the rules and that we won't shop here ever again, and move on.
Guess it comes down to how handy it is to play at that store, and much of a mess their rules are.
Ok, I went back there yesterday to watch 2 of my friends, who aren't regulars at the store, play in the store. And some of those people where there watching and they saw instant kills, LOS things...all the stuff I was talking about...and simply didn't say anything about it. Which leads me to believe they DO know that they are doing it wrong..because if they didn't they would of asked about it. I still can't figure out why they do this, but I tell you....the second I hit a squad of marines with my barbed strangler mounted on a Carnifex and that squad isn't instant killed, there is gonna be some problems..maybe some name calling if I'm lucky.
It isn't a big deal to me honestly, I hardly play there and play with a circle of about 7 friends. But I started goin in there occasionally to play different armys. But if I have to sacrifice certain things with no good reason...I'll continue to beat the hell outta my friends.
It isn't a big deal to me honestly, I hardly play there and play with a circle of about 7 friends. But I started goin in there occasionally to play different armys. But if I have to sacrifice certain things with no good reason...I'll continue to beat the hell outta my friends.
Erm. . . Instant Death on a squad of 1-wound models isn't exactly anything special. . .
it is if a commander is in there, or an apoth, or librarian.Ostsol said:Erm. . . Instant Death on a squad of 1-wound models isn't exactly anything special. . .
1 - 13 of 13 Posts
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