[Korim Trucebane]

so the task of revamping my army is prooving complicated. I have decided on 4 doctrines (vets, hardened fighters, grenadiers, sharpshooters), and was considering "light infantry" as my 5th.

I really only want it for the sniper rifle option, but the wording is a little fuzzy to me. can I use the doctrin to give a sniper rifle to my hardened vets, or is this part of the doctrin only optional for the grunts?

the other option is to take ratling squads, but I really really really hate those models. they just look stupid. would it be acceptable to take a 'ratling squad' but use the cadian sniper models?

 

[Lost Nemesis]

You can, technically, give the Doctrine to Veterans, but it would be a waste.

The part about the Sniper Rifle applies only to normal Infantry Platoons.. i.e., your Troops choices that are not Conscripts/Grenadiers/Armoured Fist, etc. Just the normal Infantry Platoon squads.



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[Ubernyaw]

it's really not worth it, because in order to use snipers effectively, you should just take a squad of ratlings (I know, you'd think 1 sniper would be a battle winner, but for some reason it's just the opposite in this game)

and I would drop hardened fighters, because the upgrade it provides is virtually useless, not to mention the fact that if you're using stormies as troops, then you won't have the critical mass you need to fight extended cc as the guard. Take Close Order Drill instead, it's free and provides an actually useful upgrade. (Striking at the same time with anything short of genestealers or berzekers with furious charge, and in both cases if your in cc with either it doesn't even matter)

And I may be wrong, but the ability to infiltrate with light infantry doesn't even apply to the stormies, thus making it a total waste. Take ratlings instead.

 

[Hermann Morr]

A sniper rifle is basically an heavy weapon that wounds only half of the times and allows saves, totally unworth. It makes sense only in a 8-10 ratlings squad, cause they are cheaper than a normal guardsman with the same rifle and if you score 4-5 wounds at least one of them will not be saved.

 

[Ubernyaw]

that's not entirely true. Snipers always wound half of the time, irregardless of the opponent's toughness. They've also got a decent range. What does this mean? This mostly means that they make excellent c'tan killers. 100 points of ratlings could kill the nightbringer in a round or two of shooting. They also pin squads, so use this against footslogging orks especially (it's ap6, so they make no save AND have relatively low leadership, so they should be failing ld checks regularly. And if your ratlings pin a squad of orks and keep them out of cc for just one turn more, then they've probably made up their points) However, against most armies sniper rifles are awkard to use, so I'd suggest dropping them in favor of more firepower.

 

[Chain Templar]

Yes, you could use Cadian snipes as Ratlings, unless it was a tournament. Just ask your opponent to be sure, even in friendly games.

Sniper rifles against orks...I was facing a 2000 pt Ork footsloggers army, so I took a SW squad with 3 snipers and a Mortar support squad. Well, I intened to pin his units to slow them down, while shooting away with Heavy Bolters and such. Apparently, unkown to me, there is some "mob" like rule where as long as they have a certain number, they get some bonus to Ld, or are fearless or something...Long story short: they ran thgough my fire lanes, losing many Orks, then slaughterd me when they finally got to the ruins I was in (I was in a ruined city, he was advancing across open ground)...

 

[Abraham Lincoln]

Yes, you could use Cadian snipes as Ratlings, unless it was a tournament. Just ask your opponent to be sure, even in friendly games.

Sniper rifles against orks...I was facing a 2000 pt Ork footsloggers army, so I took a SW squad with 3 snipers and a Mortar support squad. Well, I intened to pin his units to slow them down, while shooting away with Heavy Bolters and such. Apparently, unkown to me, there is some "mob" like rule where as long as they have a certain number, they get some bonus to Ld, or are fearless or something...Long story short: they ran thgough my fire lanes, losing many Orks, then slaughterd me when they finally got to the ruins I was in (I was in a ruined city, he was advancing across open ground)...

Yeah, orks are pretty much fearless in big numbers. For some reason they constantly get to reroll failed morale checks. And I agree that ratlings are the stupidest model GW sells. They're hobbits. With bare feet too, and hair on them. In my army, we dedicate our lives to exterminating alien freaks like them.

 

[CowboyAdam512]

yeah im with you lincoln....... alien scum, they dont deserve to give thier lives on the same field as my men.

 

[H0urg1ass]

/me looks around sheepishly

I, ummmm, like the Ratlings. I think they add flavor and character to the army, but for those that dont like them it's perfectly allowable to use Cadian snipers or Catchan snipers in place of them and just use the Ratling rules instead.

Anyhow, I advise against light infantry. Snipers in a squad just don't compare to the destructive power of Heavy Weapons. A Heavy Bolter will do your army a lot more good in the long run.

 

[Grey]

I use Light infantry squads for a couple small reasons.

1. I like my Eversor assasin, but if I infiltrate him off by himself he gets shot or otherwise killed pretty quickly. A couple of squads of light infantry boys around doesn't specifically protect him, but it forces those LD checks and gives him some warm bodies around to throw in when he gets into a hth fight. The squads don't do much but prevent him from being surrounded and help on outnumbering, but that's usually enough.

2. I like infiltrating my special and heavy weapons particularly the melta gun(s). Yes I can do the same with Veterans, and do, but the Light infantry boys are a bit cheaper and I'm more willing to do riskier things with them. See also-assaulting alonside the Eversor.

As for the light infantry's option to take a sniper rifle, I've tried it once, was disapointed and never used it again.

 

[Sephe]

Squad has to shoot at same traget

One problem of having a sniper in an ordinary squad is that the whole squad has to shoot at the same target. Therfore, the sniper may be the only one firing as the others may not be in range. Additionally, in close range the single shot of the sniper is offset by the multiple shots of the usual lasrifle.

So, keeping snipers in their own squard makes sense.

Sephe

 

[Ubernyaw]

Yeah, orks are pretty much fearless in big numbers. For some reason they constantly get to reroll failed morale checks. And I agree that ratlings are the stupidest model GW sells. They're hobbits. With bare feet too, and hair on them. In my army, we dedicate our lives to exterminating alien freaks like them.

pinning orks actually isn't that bad. They're all low leadership, but the rule is that after they fail a leadership check they're supposed to check morale again against the size of the squad. So, if there's 12 orks, they're actually literally fearless. The solution is not that complicated, in an army that takes tanks as fast attacks, there should be no problem making 20 orks into 11 orks in a single round of shooting.

Here's my strategy for pinning orks. On the first turn target all of your ordinance and such at one squad, getting down to an easily pinnable number. After that, that squad is now ratling food, easily able to be pinned if you need them to be. Or, if you'd rather spend shots elsewhere, also good. Basically, use ur arty to make them pinnable then keep the option open for when you must. Or, of course, you could just use 10 ratlings to take off 4 orks per turn from any squad you please.

Now that I think about it, pinning is also something I'd like to try against other guard or LATD.

Also, light infantry is a good doctrine, but your army needs to be themed towards it to get your full run out of it. Cameleoline and light infantry were practically made for each other, so you could start off there.

 

[Roland Durendal]

Yeah I agree with Ubern. My Army is a themed Light Infantry army and I use Camo and Light Infantry together. Those two combined make a formidable combo if you utilize your army ight. I usually infiltrate most of my army into good terrain, where they not only getthe cover bonus, but they deny the good ground from the enemy. It works really well. Though it is a little expensive.

 

[Kaiser]

I personally only give Light Infantry to Heavy Weapon, Special Weapon Squads and Command Squads tooled up for leadership. Then I just infiltrate them into or behind my fireline.
Now, infiltrating them in my own deployment zone might be a waste of their potential to be almost anywhere on the table, but that's just a nice bonus. I would have paid for Light Infantry even if it meant being restricted to my deployment zone - No, the reason as to why I give them Light Infantry is to delay their deployment untill my opponent is done with his. That way I can be almost 100% sure that his transports won't be able to deploy somewhere where my fire support squad of autocannons can't be of much use against them or some similar situation. The late deployment gives me the opportunity to see where they're needed the most and then place them where I think they'll do the most damage.

 

[Ubernyaw]

I personally only give Light Infantry to Heavy Weapon, Special Weapon Squads and Command Squads tooled up for leadership. Then I just infiltrate them into or behind my fireline.
Now, infiltrating them in my own deployment zone might be a waste of their potential to be almost anywhere on the table, but that's just a nice bonus. I would have paid for Light Infantry even if it meant being restricted to my deployment zone - No, the reason as to why I give them Light Infantry is to delay their deployment untill my opponent is done with his. That way I can be almost 100% sure that his transports won't be able to deploy somewhere where my fire support squad of autocannons can't be of much use against them or some similar situation. The late deployment gives me the opportunity to see where they're needed the most and then place them where I think they'll do the most damage.

that's quite devious... I kinda want to try that now:yes:

 

[Mask]

I've never heard of anyone having all that much success with sniper rifels, so I'd put the points somewhere more capable... There are few things a full squad of ratlings can do that a nice, big basilisk can't, for example... :yes:

Sniper rifles should be lasguns with Rending. Then they'd be more sniper-ish and more useful...

And can someone explain to me why the "Light infantry"-doctrine grants you another Heavy 1-weapon?

Apparently, unkown to me, there is some "mob" like rule where as long as they have a certain number, they get some bonus to Ld, or are fearless or something...

The "Check size" rule. If orks fail a ld-test, they can roll 2D6 and if they roll under their current number of models, they decide that they're still strong enough to beat the crap out of the other un's, and thus pass their test.

 

[IGFreely]

I like to use light infantry to set up pickets. It puts you closer to the enemy, but it allows for one extra round of the "get chewed up in CC, counterfire, get chewed up in CC, counterfire" routine. If a fast CC army can close with you quickly, it's better to fire, die, fire, die, and so on than to allow the enemy to get into CC with the bulk of your army all at once.

One place I like to use sniper rifles is in SWS demo squads. 2 snipers and a demo charge. That way they can plink away at and possibly pin advancing enemies from behind your line squads. If they pin the advancing troops, the line squad can hammer them. The other bennie is that they get to function throughout the game whereas the typical demo-flamer-flamer only gets one real shot. If they score one pin, I find 2 snipers + demo usually outkill 2 flamers + demo, and without the pin it's still pretty close because of the multiple rounds of firing.