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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Being a longtime painter, but a newer player, I’ve had the chance to love and collect a sizeable daemon army. Being daemons gave me the chance to learn the basics of the game using an army that can handle many different kinds of situations. Being a “point and kill army”, it was easy for me to get the hang of combat with a little bit of magic thrown in. I love my daemons, but now I aspire for a change of things. I want a tactical, hard-hitting, yet elite army. So here I am! High Elves!

As a daemon player, I loved ripping into your lines and spilling blood for the four Ruinous Powers, but now I want to try it from the opposite end of the spectrum. Daemons are not just to be considered "just an easy army", they have their flaws too, but I want to rely more on tactics now than just sheer power. Having defeated a few High Elf armies myself, I want be on the defensive now. I want to attack with the precision of a finely tuned army of elite units than a mass of blood thirsty nightmares. I’m trading in a sledgehammer for a finely tuned surgical instrument.

I already have the book and I love reading about the lore of these guys. I do have money to spend now since I got rid of my World of Warcraft account and I think it’d be fun to model an army after the Blood Elves. Why not paint them crimson than blue? I think it’d be very appealing.

Currently, I’m looking to buy the army set you can pick up online. I think it’d be a good way to get the numbers up right off the bat with essential core units and such and I can always spice it up with additional “rare” and “special” units as I see fit.

Now I’m asking you, Assuryians, what advice can you give me about this army? What would you say the cardinal “do’s” and “don’ts” are?

I’m reading the book right now :)

Any advice is greatly appreciated!

Jake
 

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Welcome!

The HE were my second army as well... I am a Hordes/Warriors of Chaos first and foremost, but I am loving HE.

The most important thing to realize is that elves are glass cannons. This is different from Chaos, which is known for its ability to take a beating. HE always strike first and pack a hell of a punch, but you pay for it in points, and your army is only T3.

Example: Swordmasters. 2 WS6 S5 attacks that always strike first (ASF) is incredible, even for special infantry. However, they are pricey, and they only have T3 and a 5+ armor. If you don't protect them from shooting/magic as they move across the field, and pick your battles intelligently, they will die... in droves.

Learn to screen and otherwise defend your units. You'll do great in CC, but you need to make it there relatively intact. The basic High Magic spell is spectacular for this, having 2 casters throwing 2 of these around can be invaluable. Take cheap protective items on unit champions as well (amulet of fire comes to mind).

Also, psychology is a bit of an issue. Although elves are in the 8/9 Ld range, they are hurting in the fear/terror/panic departments, which means you will be taking a lot of these tests. Be prepared for this. Use items like Gem of Courage or Dragonhorn to get you out of an Ld bind, and make liberal use of the psychology banners that the HE army has access to.

Basically, from an offensive standpoint, play HE like you would chaos, with a few new options: more ranged, scouts, etc. But be more defensive than you usually would with Chaos. You don't have a Plaguebearer regen anvil with a BSB herald. Get into CC ASAP, where you shine with ASF, but protect yourself as you get there, from both shooting/magic and leadership standpoints.

Remember you have different core/special/rare requirements than other armies.

DOs:
Take Eagles; They may seem pricey but do the same job any other flyer does just as well
RBTs are awesome
Lion Chariot > Tiranoc Chariot
Dragon Princes
WLs/SMs/PGs are all good in their own right, use them correctly to see best results
Spears/Archers to fill core
High Magic list
Protective/Arcane Magic Items

DON'Ts:
Sea Guard (Jack of all trades and truly a master of none, and too pricey while doing it)
Silver Helms
Reavers (unless you MUST have fast cav)
Shadow Warriors in large numbers (scouts are nice, but they are pricey and weak)
Magic Weapons (a great weapon is cheap and great and all heroes are ASF)

Good luck and good hunting.

EDIT: Once you're familiar with the army, take a look at the army list section. You can get some ideas from there.
 

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HE have been called soap bubbles with war hammers big war hammers. They are fragile, very. HE require a finesse to play vice a point and shoot. My first army is the Bretonnias, therefore I know all about four charges and a cloud of dust.

The battalion box is a very good way to go. HE can dominate the magic phase, the shooting phase, moving phase and with care can dominate the close combat phase. But we can not dominate all of them at the same time. Therefore it is your playing style which should decide your army.

Spearman get one more rank of attacks than normal. Against average troops they will survive and win but against heavily armoured troops they will lose.

Archers have a very good BS and a range of 30 vice 24.

LSG are a cross between the two and have there uses. They are a core choice and can fill up those spots for you. I like them with a cavalry heavy HE army. Otherwise they are two expensive as archers and spearman can do the same for cheaper costs. You will hear a lot of pro and cons about them. They are a good choice for a beganing escalation league.

Silverhelms is another choice where you will hear pro and cons about. For about nine more points you get dragon princes. Two attacks and immune to flaming attacks. Boy is that a hard choice to make.

Reaver bows are useable but for me they are costly compared to other armies light cavalry choices. Shadow warriors are the same. I want to use them but never seem to have the points for them.

Chariots cost more than others but move further. They do not get the +1 for the blades on the sides as I guess the pointy eared guys would not stomp to that level. Hero choices can go in the horsey one but Korhil can ride in a lion chariot. Therefore I have him there.

HE three special infantry choices each have a different job. As they cost the same they can be interchangable.

Swordmasters are definitly soap bubbles with big swords. Two attacks but only a plus five armour save. But if they survive until combat they can be a real meat grinder.

White lions are more able to survive but one attack at Str 4 I believe. My book is just out of reach. They can ignore terrain and are stubborn. You need them in large blocks to survive the outnumber by fear causing units. Or the banner of lion courage. I run them with the captain of the PG and they work pretty good.

PG cause fear which can be a good thing. A ward save. But they are not capable of doing much damage against units with a higher toughest or armour. They are a very good anvil therefore need rank bonuses.

RBTs are trully awesome. Multi shots at -2 AS or single bolt with no chance of misfire. And there is no guessing range like some other artillery pieces.

Eagles are cheap, good march blockers, bait and flee options and warmachine destroyers. But they can be weakly armoured.

Heroes are weak but with right magical stuff can be deadly.

Mages have the same problem but most others do also. High lore magic is a very good catch all. Protection and courage, help out with shooting, fireball, flames of the phoenix and vauls unmaking. Then with one you get the +1 to your dispell roll. That comes in handy. And the ban of vamps and heavily magical armies, drain magic.

The dragon and dragon mage are trully fun to play around with. The DM getting a free power die and giving him the silverwand for little points helps out. Yes the dragon has a weak breath but all it takes is one unsaved wound to require a panic test. Unless the enemy is immune to phys. Yes the mage can only take fire lore but so what, it is a good choice especially with the free power die. I always hope I get the burning head spell. Just remember the DM is the weak point of this chain.

Griffons can be pure murder but can be shoot down.

A HE lord with proper magical items on a star dragon can be a close combat nightmare for your opponent. Just remember that this unit can not get stuck in close combat.

HE have to take fewer core choices than other armies but get more specail and rare slots to fill.

HE have some trully fun special characters. Where to start?

Teclis pricey but look at what you get. Know all spells from whichever lore he chooses. Ability to make any cast IR with minumin required roll and any doubles but ones. An item where he ignores his first miscast each turn. D3 for extra power die and extra dispell die. Look around there are not too many items or characters which add to your dispell pile. I sometimes forget about his special dispell item which can remove the spell from the mind of your opponents mage. Teclis has a very good sword but with only one attack is nearly a waste. Wish you could buy that sword and give it to another character.

Tyrion, Teclis brother is a close combat nightmare. I have the model but have not used him and my book is still out of reach. But he is MR and gets a regen save.

E the grim can be a good lord choice. With his griffon and the ward save they can survive. He is a second level mage and that can help out. He is very good in close combat and the griffon is nothing to laugh about.

AA is another good lord choice but even with his special bow I think he is over priced but again I have the model and the book is still out of reach.

HE captain of the PG with his special death cry will cause your enemy to think about attacking him.

Korhil in a lion chariot and special killing blow is a true wonder.

For some reason HE special characters work better in other units than the ones that they are assigned to.

Okay I believe I was a little long winded here but what can I say. You deserved an answer. As before go to the HE armyh lists and you will get a lot of help. Or pm me if you want.
 

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Rules Attorney
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White lions are more able to survive but one attack at Str 4 I believe.
Str 6 with great weapons.
 
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Happy strokes, happy s...
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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Thanks for the quick responses everyone. It's been very helpful; rep. for each one of you!

My army is in the mail and should be here in about a week. Here's what's on the way:
  • 2 Bolt Throwers
  • 1 Archmage
  • 1 Mage
  • 1 Prince
  • 1 Noble
  • 1 Chariot
  • 8 Silver Helms
  • 32 Archers
  • 32 Spearmen

I picked up 5 White Lions of Charice today so I'll start building up my numbers for some sweet elite units. I have a little more to go, but the main army box pretty much took care of having to purchase too many more units from here on out.

Color scheme: I'm thinking of going with a deep red, even a crimson. Nothing too bright, but it will be bold. I want my army to look different, and I was thinking about making them look like blood elves. I think it'd be very striking.

I'm liking this army a lot and I've simply just been reading about them. I've had a chance to look at the tactica already and it's very helpful in developing a flavor for this army. Already I have two lists I'm thinking of, one very balanced list, the other an elite list which uses the advantage of the increased number of elite troops to be used.

Balanced:
* Archmage, Lvl 4, 2x dispel scroll, silver wand - high magic - 310
* Noble, BSB, Radiant Gem of Hoeth, dragon armour, great weapon - 169

Core:
* 20 Spears, sb, mus - 200
* 20 Spears, sb, mus - 200
* 10 Archers - 110
* 10 Archers - 110

Speacial:
* 5 DPs, sb, Banner of Ellyrion - 185
* 5 DPs, sb, - 170
* 5 ER, spears, bows, mus - 112
* 5 ER, spears, mus - 92
* 14 WL Banner of Sorcery - 290 (bodyguard for the archmage)

Rare:
* 2x RBTs - 200
* 2x Great Eagles - 100

Total: 2248
Models: 100
Wounds: 109
PD: 8-10
DD: 5+2 scrolls


It's a pretty balanced list and I got the idea after reading a good post on a sight about having the right army to deal with pretty much anything. The spears would be my main block for dealing with anything, and I'll use the rest of my army to flank and funnel the enemy to the blocks of spear men.

As for the "elite" list:

* Lvl 4, seer staff, ring of fury, dispel scroll - 350
* lvl 2, jewel of dusk, dispel scroll - 170

* 10 Archers - 110
* 10 Archers - 110

* 14 SM, FC, Banner of sorcery, - 290
* 14 SM, FC, - 240
* 15 WL, FC - 255
* 5 DPs, sb, banner of Ellyrion - 185
* 5 DPs, - 150

* Tyranoc Chariot - 85
* 2xRBT - 200
* 2xGreat Eagle - 100

Total: 2245
PD: 10-12 + bound
DD: 5 + 2 scrolls
Models: 80
Wounds: 92

It relies on the elite units in the army and uses the core to prod the enemy a bit until the elites can mop up the enemy. These are just ideas I've seen though.

I'll be getting 8 silver helms, but I heard they're not really that good. I may just go with Dragon Princes instead so I can just convert them or whatever, not sure yet.

I can't wait 'til my army shows up!

Jake
 

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Balanced:
* Archmage, Lvl 4, 2x dispel scroll, silver wand - high magic - 310
* Noble, BSB, Radiant Gem of Hoeth, dragon armour, great weapon - 169
I love your thinking here, but I think you'll find it difficult to perform. High Elves are notorious (maybe it's just me) to never hit or wound anything so you will probably want some protection on this guy (armor of caledor and guardian phoenix) You've got plenty of room for another mage, maybe with the ring of fury or something.
Core:
* 20 Spears, sb, mus - 200
* 20 Spears, sb, mus - 200 You're being too kind to your opponent. I'd drop at least one of your core troops and get another mage. Maybe it's calm where you play, but there is usually way too much magic for this to fly in my area.
* 10 Archers - 110
* 10 Archers - 110

Speacial:
* 5 DPs, sb, Banner of Ellyrion - 185 6 wide works a lot better for me.
* 5 DPs, sb, - 170If you can squeeze another DP in and the warbanner, these guys can really pack a whallop.
* 5 ER, spears, bows, mus - 112
* 5 ER, spears, mus - 92
* 14 WL Banner of Sorcery - 290 (bodyguard for the archmage)

Rare:
* 2x RBTs - 200
* 2x Great Eagles - 100
I'd love for you to post a few painted minis for us when you get them done.
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 · (Edited)
I'd love for you to post a few painted minis for us when you get them done.
Thanks for the notes on my lists; I'll take your advice into consideration.

As for painting, I'm a little hesitant about painting these guys. I don't want white to be too prominent in my army. These guys are on a decline as a race and have been pretty brutalized by war. I finished reading the entire lore section of the book and I enjoyed it thoroughly. I want my army to be a high elf army, but for it have a "darker" tone to it.

I'm thinking of something like these:
http://www.wiggler.gr/wp-content/424px-Blood_elf2.jpg
http://th06.deviantart.com/fs19/300W/f/2007/257/7/6/Blood_Elf_Paladin_by_Shiramune.jpg
http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/info/encyclopedia/images/articles/bloodelves.jpg

Main colors would be red (deep, not too bright), dark greys, gold with emeralds. I want the theme with these guys to be proud but a little ominous. These guys have been pushed around a bit as what I've retained from reading the lore.
Any thoughts?

Jake
 

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Those pictures use four colors to complement each other, big red and then green details to contrast. Black to complement the red. Gold to details.

We've got scalemail, plate, skirts, details and trim. Obviously details and trim will be green and gold. So that leaves red and black.

I you need to paint a few figures to try the scheme and here.
1)
scalemail & plate: black
skirts: red
details/gems: green
trim: gold

Above could become very dark and look like a VC army a guy here has. That's why I think you should use white actually like so.
ac milan logo - Google Bildsökning
Look especially on the circle in the middle with the red&black stripes and the st: george cross.
This I think should give you white skirts even if you didn't want it. As you can see, with your other colors you'll be fine as long as you don't go for a standard mithril silver on the metals which is what makes the army light, not the white cloth.



2)
scalemail: red
skirts: white
plate: black
trim: gold
details/gems: green


To paint the scales red just paint themin a solid red. Then mix mithril silver and red and paint the individual scales.
Then use a very thin green glaze over the whole thing and then highlight again with mithril silver, now just the very edges and not on every scale.
Same thing with black.
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
I do like the possibility of the first set of colors. I'll try them out today.

I'm looking at getting more troops, but I'm torn at the option of White Lions, Phoenix Guard, and Sword Masters. I know I'll be using White Lions a bit since they're a good all-around troop choice. I know the abilities of each kind of unit, but still a bit stumped.

Still waiting for my army to get here!

Jake
 

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Archers are great in conjunction with any of the 3 elite infantry options in the specials section. However, tiranoc chariots are a joke, don't even bother. If you take Sword Masters, make sure you get the Shield of Saphery spell from the high magic list. I would also suggest lore of Heaven with one mage in conjunction with a Seerstaf so you can guarantee that you will get Uranon's Thunderbolt and Forked Lightning, both of which are ridiculously powerful. also, on any hero that can take armor, he should have Helm of Fortune.
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
No archers at all? But isn't that a good way to whittle down the opposition?

I have to admit I am a little worried about running these guys. I mean, I love the lore of the elves. but I'm used to my daemon army where I don't need to worry about T3 S3 for nearly my entire army. My plan is to create "sqauds" that will be used to hit stuff in conjunction with each other.

This may be a stupid question, but can you put mages in the units or was the guy at my local store b.s.ing me?

Only time will tell I guess.
 

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No archers at all? But isn't that a good way to whittle down the opposition?

Yeah I have found Archers invaluable, particularly for targetting those difficult fast cavalry, flyers and skirmishers who can dance around your elite infantry all day and never stop in line of sight.

I have to admit I am a little worried about running these guys. I mean, I love the lore of the elves. but I'm used to my daemon army where I don't need to worry about T3 S3 for nearly my entire army. My plan is to create "sqauds" that will be used to hit stuff in conjunction with each other.

Perfect in theory, you have to know your limitations as well, there is no sense in trying to get a unit of 7 swordmasters across the table while there is still truckloads (a unit or 2) of shooting and magic floating around. You will need to be patient, very patient.

This may be a stupid question, but can you put mages in the units or was the guy at my local store b.s.ing me?

I actually think that as an upgrade for the Swordmaster Champion (or instead of) you should be able to get a L1 mage with access only to the ward save spell and 25 pts of wargear. Unfortunately you can't do this but your mages can join any unit you field just like any other hero.

Only time will tell I guess.
Hope it helps, I guess the archer thing is a matter for debate, but mine tend to survive, and take a table quarter, meaning they automatically do their points back in most scenarios.
 

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Archer lines are useful to get in a core choice at min price for max effectiveness, as they can sit with your bolt throwers, and help provide a reasonable combat auxiliary to pin-cushion most enemy skirmish lines or fast cavalry.

I would opt for large numbers of White Lions and Phoenix Guard as the line and have Swordmasters skirting them, so that hopefully you are giving your opponent too many targets to shoot at. One use of Silver Helms I have found is to keep your enemies busy fending off small cavalry units from attacking his archery, with a reasonable save, and the fact that you don;t have to have many to draw off support/protection units, the elite infantry ought to get across with lower losses....
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
Those are some really good points. After reading the book this past weekend, I've come to the conclusion I'll need a balance of PG, WL, and SM as each fulfills complimentary roles of each other.

I'll use the save of the PG to more or less act a bit like my old Plaguebearers and then move in the flanks with my WL's and my SM's. I'll keep my SM's heavily protected and I will never charge into a unit unless I can support units multilaterally.

Now I'll need some Dragon Princes....
 

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I think it depends what armies you're usually facing as well.

I use a squad of 10x LSG with shields for RBT defence and table quarters. Even though they cost slightly more than archers I've found they're alot better at getting rid of the cheap fast stuff that gets past your main battle line (and being alive at the end of it). If you can find a hill for them then there's no comparison (because you can leave them in 2x5 formation all game instead of reforming before melee)
 

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Archers are great in conjunction with any of the 3 elite infantry options in the specials section. However, tiranoc chariots are a joke, don't even bother. If you take Sword Masters, make sure you get the Shield of Saphery spell from the high magic list. I would also suggest lore of Heaven with one mage in conjunction with a Seerstaf so you can guarantee that you will get Uranon's Thunderbolt and Forked Lightning, both of which are ridiculously powerful. also, on any hero that can take armor, he should have Helm of Fortune.
I find your suggestion that one should spend the points to get the seerstaff for a d6s4 magic missile a joke. Lore of Heavens is allright, but High magic is tons better. The Thunderbolt casting value is too high and forked lightning is only marginally good. Against half the armies in the game, you're only going to average 1.5 wounds. Not so great. High magic is always useful (except for curse of arrow attraction and some of the higher level spells on a level 2)

Tiranoc chariots are hardly a joke. In fact when used appropriately, they can be very useful. 18" charge keeps the enemy from fleeing as a reaction and swarming or surrounding you. It also helps our pitiful str3 elves get some wounds in a combat.
 
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