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Should Swarmleader affect an Independant character?

  • Yes, he is part of the unit

    Votes: 23 85.2%
  • No, an IC doesn't get the unit's rules

    Votes: 4 14.8%
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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
We had this argument at our local GW last night.

Ths Swarmlord's leader ability lets him give a unit within 18" the preferred enemy rule (or others). If an IC is part of that unit, would it also be affected?

My opponents (and others) arguement is no: an IC does not get the rules of the unit he has joined.

My arguemnet (and others) is yes: the IC counts as part of the unit when swarmleader comes into effect, it doesn't affect certain models in the unit, it affects the unit as a whole, which he is currently part of. It is not a special rule that the unit has and the tyrant hasn't.
 

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ok let me flip out my trusty old rulebook for a second....

yep just as I suspected, im pretty sure "the model jions the unit, acts as a unit, pretty much the only thing that doesnt make hime just an upgrade is that he confers an extra killpoint, and a couple of other things but thats not the point..
but yes you are correct the whole unit is affected and so is the ID, and if that doesnt work you could always just give their dice Squaids...
 

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The Future
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I would disagree - he grants a unit the prefered enemy rule. The IC isn't actually part of that unit, he's only attached to it, so if he gains the rule depends entirely on if prefered enemy passes from unit to IC if they had it normally (i.e. without the swarmlords interference).

For example: scout and infiltrate don't pass from IC to unit or vice versa, but one or two of the USRs do - I don't think Preferred Enemy is one that does, but I don't have the rulebook with me to be 100% sure.

However there's nothing to stop you giving it to the IC himself, although in that regard it won't pass to the squad.

The reason I say this is that there is no limit to the number of ICs I can add to a squad, so you could have 5 basic dudes and 7 ICs making up a single squad!
 

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Bugs'r us!
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I'd say he would. As with the USR rules it's about a unit having a rule and giving it to IC's or not. In this case there's a unit (consisting of basic people + IC's) which get's the rule.

Technically you could have a unit of 7 IC's these days, without any random troops.
 

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Too Sexy For My Whirlwind
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Indeed that is the eternal debate, happens with SM characters and their squads as well. I personally say that whilst an IC is attached to a unit he is part of that unit, pure and simple. The rule book does seem to support this, and indeed points out the only exceptions when and IC acts like he's not. Presumably, one can then infer that the rest of the time he is (in fact one can infer that he's always part of the unit, just with special rules during certain phases.)

Thing is, when a negative effect or enemy shooting hits a unit, nobody ever wants to argue that the IC does not get effected then. Its only when they might be getting some benefit from being in-unit that this issue crops up.
 

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Preferred Enemy USR doesn't have the all-important * which signifies that an IC with a certain special rule doesn't grant that special rule to a unit he joins and vice versa. So, the Swarmlord grants the unit Preferred Enemy, and then the IC joins that unit. Because the Preferred Enemy USR doesn't get negated by a IC that joins the unit without the rule, he receives the USR as well. It's similar to the Fearless special rule, in that if an IC joins a Fearless unit he becomes Fearless as well, but if he's Fearless and the unit he joins isn't, he loses the USR.
 

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Yup, just like the Warboss who joins a unit with a painboss gets FNP
 

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Too Sexy For My Whirlwind
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I think their suggesting a scenario where an IC is already part of a unit, then the Swarmlord gives that unit+IC preferred enemy. Like I said IMO both get it but if you can prove that the IC gets it even when he wasn't originally part of the unit thats even better.
 

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I would say he gets the rule if he was originally attached when it was "cast" but when he leaves he loses it. For leadership purposes the unit and the IC that is attached are counted as one unit so it would probably be something similar. I'm reminded of Ambush, (Snikrot special rule) if an IC is part of the unit that Snikrot is leading the IC can ambush too.
 

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Blood Boy
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An independent character is often affected by the rules of the units. If the unit is shot he can be affected, broken etc (if Tyranid Primes could be broken). Because of this the character will benefit from anything the unit is zapped by. If the unit was hit with a hostile ability be it a gun or psychic power or something else any independent character in the unit would be affected. Pavane of Slaanesh will make the unit move about and this would affect any character in it.
 

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I would say he gets the rule if he was originally attached when it was "cast" but when he leaves he loses it.
What's the purpose of that? IC's are treated as separate units in CC, this is why they're allowed to be singled out.
 

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What's the purpose of that? IC's are treated as separate units in CC, this is why they're allowed to be singled out.
It was more meaning when they choose to leave the unit instead of in combat when they are treated as separate units, they still flee, sweeping advance and massacre together
 

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Why is this a debate? The rule book says this in plain English. He gets the rule. Close combat isn't a universal special rule. You can't just pick and choose what rules to apply at what times. That is Game Workshops Job.

On a side note, if English is not your primary language i apologize.
 

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Okay, I know this is my first post and maybe I'm way off the mark as I'm just getting back into the game, but....

I don't think the Swarmlord would get the ability. I'm not arguing that the ability would not transfer to an IC, only that the Swarmlord is NOT an independent character. Under his profile he is a monstrous creature and he is unique but unlike the Parasite and the Prime he is not listed as an independent character.

Just my 2 cents
 

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The Future
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What's the purpose of that? IC's are treated as separate units in CC, this is why they're allowed to be singled out.
That's exactly how the Eldar special powers work. You cast it on one unit/squad/model (can't remember the exact phrase) and anyone with them gets it - but if they split up, only the unit/squad/model you cast it on retains the bonus.
 

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Okay, I know this is my first post and maybe I'm way off the mark as I'm just getting back into the game, but....

I don't think the Swarmlord would get the ability. I'm not arguing that the ability would not transfer to an IC, only that the Swarmlord is NOT an independent character. Under his profile he is a monstrous creature and he is unique but unlike the Parasite and the Prime he is not listed as an independent character.

Just my 2 cents
i don't understand why this applies to the topic at hand though?
 

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That's exactly how the Eldar special powers work. You cast it on one unit/squad/model (can't remember the exact phrase) and anyone with them gets it - but if they split up, only the unit/squad/model you cast it on retains the bonus.
Not really... if I fortune a unit with an IC and subsequently the IC moves away, he still hase the reroll on his armour saves even if he isn't part of the unit. He used to be when the power was cast, so he still counts for "unitl the next eldar turn all models can reroll saves".

I believe it's in the eldar FAQ too, but I wouldn't count on it! =)
 

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The Future
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Not really... if I fortune a unit with an IC and subsequently the IC moves away, he still hase the reroll on his armour saves even if he isn't part of the unit. He used to be when the power was cast, so he still counts for "unitl the next eldar turn all models can reroll saves".

I believe it's in the eldar FAQ too, but I wouldn't count on it! =)
It's not in the FAQ, so I've now no idea where I got my info from - and sadly a search on here brought up nothing.
 
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