[ze_poodle]

Can an independent character attached to a unit that cannot perform a sweeping advance himself perform a sweeping advance at the end of the assault phase?

Say we've got Vulkan and a squad of terminators in an assault with an enemy unit. The enemies break, and the Terminators cannot do a sweeping advance, but Vulkan has artificer armour and counts as a separate unit in an assault, so could he hypothetically roll his own d6+I to check if he destroys the fleeing unit? He doesn't physically detach from the squad, since sweeping advances involve no actual movement. They simply trigger a consolidate move if successful.

The way I see it it breaks down two ways:

- Independent characters can only detach from a squad in the movement phase, and thus can't detach during the assault phase to perform a sweeping advance. They're still a part of the squad and form one unit when outside an assault, so they can't do a sweeping advance.
or
- Independent characters count as a separate unit during the assault phase, and the sweeping advance takes place during the assault phase - in fact, it happens before you leave combat. Thus the character can do his own sweeping advance independently of the squad.

I can't tell which is right, and my opponent was planning to run Lysander with some Sternguard so this sounds like it might come up in a game. Has it been faq'd anywhere or previously addressed? Is it mentioned in the rulebook? The book does say that a character can't leave a squad in the shooting or assault phases, but then it's a question of whether or not doing a sweeping advance counts as leaving the unit. I'm genuinely muddled.

 

[RangerRob]

actually, the IC is considered part of the unit right after the attacks are resolved.

Pg 49 of BRB:
"Once all attacks have been resolved, these characters are once again treated as normal members of the unit they have joined (from determining assault results onwards)"

also, Pg 48 of BRB:
"The combined unit moves and assaults at the speed of the slowest model while they stay together."

So I believe the first option is the correct one, that the IC cannot sweeping advance if it is in a unit of terminators. It cannot detach and it must move at the speed of the slowest model. To me that means it cannot sweeping advance, since the terminators are slower and the IC is attached to them. I know that isn't an exact match to sweeping advance, but it is very close and seems to be correct.

 

[rafis117]

The solution could be to detach the IC beforehand - unless the unit is a bodyguard or honor guard it doesn't allow any wound allocation... which makes every race that isn't Space Marine (or their Chaos brethren) brick themselves just thinking about Power Fists.

 

[ze_poodle]

The solution could be to detach the IC beforehand - unless the unit is a bodyguard or honor guard it doesn't allow any wound allocation... which makes every race that isn't Space Marine (or their Chaos brethren) brick themselves just thinking about Power Fists.

Actually, Space Marines piss themselves over power fists as well. Any IC with a Toughness lower than 5 is going to want to avoid them.

I'm leaning towards the interpretation where you can't, since that's clearly what the rulebook wants you to do even if it isn't stated outright. But it seems like what Rafis suggested is an explicitly legal way of doing the exact same thing, so...yeah.

 

[CrownAxe]

The solution could be to detach the IC beforehand - unless the unit is a bodyguard or honor guard it doesn't allow any wound allocation... which makes every race that isn't Space Marine (or their Chaos brethren) brick themselves just thinking about Power Fists.

You can only detacht an IC unit during your movement phase

 

[rafis117]

You can only detacht an IC unit during your movement phase

Which was what I suggested. Detatch during movement. Assault as IC and a separate unit, and if combat is won, consolidate (if the dice gods are with you, obviously). The problem with melee and ICs is that they are treated as individuals even when they are in a squad.

 

[psichotykwyrm]

There is downside to the "splitting off" tactic. If you win the battle and consolidate on your own turn, you have an IC that is hanging out by himself during the opponent's subsequent turn. Your enemy can freely target him for shooting.

 

[rafis117]

There is downside to the "splitting off" tactic. If you win the battle and consolidate on your own turn, you have an IC that is hanging out by himself. Your enemy can freely target him for shooting.

That's true. You've got to play it by ear. Weigh the possibility to flatten your opponent's unit with your unit being shot in return.

 

[jy2]

This topic had been thoroughly discussed here. As pointed out by Wicky:

In my 10+ years of experience in following the gaming style of GamesWorkshop the trend that stands out as a basis for play is conforming to the lowest factor within a unit.

Here are prime examples –
• If one member of the unit breaks coherency, they all do,
• If one member of a unit moves, they all do,
• If you can see one member of a unit, they all are a target,
• If one member of a unit shot at a target, they all must shoot only that target,
• If one member of a unit shot at a target, they all must assault only that target,
• If one member of the unit contacts the table edge, they all do,
• If one member of the unit moves at a certain speed, they all do,
• If one member of the unit is denied a sweeping advance, they all are……..

(Do you see a plausible trend here?)

Unless otherwise stated and as you have kindly said, its not otherwise stated in regards to this problem, you play to the least effect in a game.

So I would most earnestly play it following the previous trend – unless otherwise stated.

 

[rafis117]

This topic had been thoroughly discussed here. As pointed out by Wicky:

That was an interesting read, but we had already come to the same conclusion. I suggested an alternative method that, while it legally allows for sweeping advance of the unit that has it, leaves the IC in the open for a turn of shooting. Namely; detach during movement (which is legal), assault as two units (squad + IC), and if combat is won, sweeping advance. This doesn't change how the IC is targeted in melee, but does change how the unit is targeted in terms of being shot at.

 

[antique_nova]

• If you can see one member of a unit, they all are a target,

debatablec With the new LOS rules, you can only kill what you see, but i guess he just missed that to just get to his point.
thanks
antique_nova

 

[psichotykwyrm]

With the new LOS rules, you can only kill what you see,

Ummm, no. Wounds must be allocated across the entire unit.