Librarium Online Forums banner

1 - 20 of 21 Posts

·
LO Ninja
Joined
·
1,214 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I have yet to read the dex but there seems to be all this talk over swords and halbrids, the latter being better in cc somehow. The thing thats miffing me a bit is the fact all my PAGK.... sorry GKSS all weild halbirds. What am I to do if I want em to have swords?? Will people let it slid if I say there jus swords? Gah!

PL
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
792 Posts
I have yet to read the dex but there seems to be all this talk over swords and halbrids, the latter being better in cc somehow. The thing thats miffing me a bit is the fact all my PAGK.... sorry GKSS all weild halbirds. What am I to do if I want em to have swords?? Will people let it slid if I say there jus swords? Gah!

PL
Firstly, read the codex.

Halberds offer +2 initiative. Swords offer a +1 Invuln save in CC if a model has one. So on your standard GKSS, you gain no benefit for the sword since you do not possess an invulnerable save.

Halberds will make your GKSS 25pts a piece, so its pricey to upgrade an entire squad with them.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
249 Posts
As long as you have all swords or all halberds that shouldn't be an issue, it's when you want a mix that people won't let that slide (confusing for the opponent, nothing major but its easier to see)
 

·
LO Ninja
Joined
·
1,214 Posts
Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Firstly, read the codex.
I will do when it comes out and I pick mine up April 2nd.

Halberds will make your GKSS 25pts a piece, so its pricey to upgrade an entire squad with them.
25pts pricey?? Hahaha, been playing them like that for quite a while anyway.

So to sum up my GKSS can have either or neither on them? if neither then the currently modeled halbird just becomes a S4 I4 Power Weapon?

PL
 

·
Senior Member
Joined
·
768 Posts
It may be pricy, but is it worth it.

I'm really considering equiping my squads with halberds. A GKSS of 10 men with halberds and 2 psycannons will cost 290 points.
I do agree it is a great investment, but striking first even against charging BA is very valuable. Throw in hammerhand and you can cripple even a death company squad.

What are your opinions?
 

·
Senior Member
Joined
·
4,967 Posts
I own 30 PAGK and 21 of them have halberds. I don't really think the upgrade is worth it with GKSS as 5 points a model is a bit steep for a guy with only one attack.

What I plan to do is use my metal PAGK as Purifiers as they only pay 2 points for a halberd and they get 2 attacks to use them more effectively. I will buy Crowe to make them troop choices then buy another 10 or 20 of the new plastic grey knights to use as GKSS with only swords (hammers on the justicars)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,277 Posts
for the termies, halberds, regular troops (ie strike Squads) give them swords. reason? the termies get the halberds FREE and regular Troops will ave to pay!!!!
 

·
LO Ninja
Joined
·
1,214 Posts
Discussion Starter · #8 · (Edited)
Hmm well my plan was thus (current madels + what I want to buy)

GKGM (palidans)
GKLibby (GKT)

GKRiflemanDread (yet to buy)
GKRiflemanDread (yet to buy)
5 x Palidains (SR) (yet to buy)

10 x GKSS, 2 x Incin, Halbirds (LR)
10 x GKSS, 2 x Incin, Halbirds (LR)
10 x GKSS, 2 x Psy, Rhino
10 x GKSS, 2 x Psy, Rhino
5 x GKT, Incin, Halbirds (SR)

SR (yet to buy)
SR (yet to buy)

LR
LR

Left over
6 x GKT, psy, swords

That was what I was going to aim for. Details missed out of course.

Any thoughts? Perhaps change the 2 GKSS psy squads into combat squads and give them a razorback, have the halbirds unit in it the psy unit hang back?
Take out a dread and put it in HS and use the E slot for purifiers in a SR in the last FA slot?

You may of course note that I'm trying to fill out the FOC for this GK eddition. :E
PL
 

·
Senior Member
Joined
·
4,967 Posts
for the termies, halberds, regular troops (ie strike Squads) give them swords. reason? the termies get the halberds FREE and regular Troops will ave to pay!!!!
I think each termie squad should keep one guy armed with a sword to allocate enemy power weapon wounds to. This gives him a 4+ invulnerable in combat. The rest of the squad take a mix of halberds and hammers.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
491 Posts
I think halberds would be worth it on interceptor squads and purifier squads, the latter in particular; just imagine a purifier squad with halberds; purifying flame + I6 power weapon attacks = instant pwnage. Sure it's 300+ points, but well worth it. I wish they would have put the swords and halberds the other way round, without swapping the effects. Think about it; halberds provide a staff to protect yourself with, thus the +1invun, and it would be quicker to swing a sword than it would be to use a language.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
491 Posts
Clearly none of you have used one in real life, have you? Halberds are cumbersome and slow, and only provide an increase in reach by half a foot at best because you have to use them with both hands. With the time taken to swing, even with an extended reach, the swordsman can simply lunge forward and put you off balance, opening a plethora of second and even third hits, depending on their skill. As such, halberds-man can rely only on using the haft of his weapon to block, putting the swordsman off balance, and opening his opportunity for an attack. And no winging about how GKs can do anything better, as their weapons would be in proportion to their size and strength.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
776 Posts
Ok first of all, how do you know that stuff?

Secondly, it's spelt HALBERDS
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
491 Posts
I know it because I do medieval reenactment, and since there has been no use of halberds or swords since, with the exception of Asia, they are the most 'recent' use of them. We have to know them well, too, because we need to do them correctly but we have to control it well enough that we don't actually hit them.
 

·
LO Ninja
Joined
·
1,214 Posts
Discussion Starter · #16 ·
kwan do.

PL
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,677 Posts
Clearly none of you have used one in real life, have you? Halberds are cumbersome and slow... And no winging about how GKs can do anything better, as their weapons would be in proportion to their size and strength.
It also doesn't help that I can guarantee you are not built the same way or trained in the same way when they were used on a semi-regular basis.

And, no, you're wrong as to people "whining" about how GKs can do it better. They use Halberds with one hand only.

You try that, and I'll be impressed.

The way you're talking before, it gives you licence to be an expert on all things bladed.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
792 Posts
The problem is that paying for the halberd is a 25% increase is cost per model for GKSS/GKIS. GKSS/GKIS do not have the attacks to warrent this and are short range ranged units. Give them swords, two psycannons, psybolt ammunition, and maybe a MC Daemonhammer.

Now purifiers are another story entirely, this is only an 8.3% increase in cost coupled with an extra attack drastically increasing their benefit from halberds. Run with any number of psycannons(depending on role), an MC daemon hammer on the justicar, and halberds on the rest.

Terminators should be run with a mix of weaponry as the 4+ invuln save is very helpful. 4 swords, 5 halberds, or 3/6, and a MC Daemonhammer with two Psycannons for example. They fear power weapons and power fists, the swords boost their save against both. The higher initiative makes it unlikely to kill enough models to eliminate their pw swings. Note, incubi and bloodletters are obvious exceptions to this rule.

Paladins should be run to maximize wound allocation and do not require halberds outside of achieving this goal as their multiple wounds and wound allocation are enough increase their survivability. Ie a 5 man squad, with psycannon and daemon hammer, psycannon and falshions, sword, halberd, falshions, would be a solid set up. Falshions are advantageous over halberds as the additional attack is more important than a first strike against most opponents. Nothing that really hurts paladins S8+ is striking before them or cannot be harmed by S5 I6, ie powerfists, thunderhammers, DCCWs.

For ICs, the sword is generally the most solid choice as possessing a 3++ in CC drastically increases survival. The weapons that scare a GM, BC, or Librarian are S8+ and striking at I7 S5 is not going to help, but a 3++ will increase your survivability against those high strenght low iniative attacks. You stand and an equal chance swinging at I5 S5 against I1 attacks as you do at I7 S5 off killing the model off before it can swing, but increase your odds of survival by 33%.

These are lean efficient squad setups.
 

·
LO Ninja
Joined
·
1,214 Posts
Discussion Starter · #19 ·
The problem is that paying for the halberd is a 25% increase is cost per model for GKSS/GKIS. GKSS/GKIS do not have the attacks to warrent this and are short range ranged units. Give them swords, two psycannons, psybolt ammunition, and maybe a MC Daemonhammer.

Now purifiers are another story entirely, this is only an 8.3% increase in cost coupled with an extra attack drastically increasing their benefit from halberds. Run with any number of psycannons(depending on role), an MC daemon hammer on the justicar, and halberds on the rest.

Terminators should be run with a mix of weaponry as the 4+ invuln save is very helpful. 4 swords, 5 halberds, or 3/6, and a MC Daemonhammer with two Psycannons for example. They fear power weapons and power fists, the swords boost their save against both. The higher initiative makes it unlikely to kill enough models to eliminate their pw swings. Note, incubi and bloodletters are obvious exceptions to this rule.

Paladins should be run to maximize wound allocation and do not require halberds outside of achieving this goal as their multiple wounds and wound allocation are enough increase their survivability. Ie a 5 man squad, with psycannon and daemon hammer, psycannon and falshions, sword, halberd, falshions, would be a solid set up. Falshions are advantageous over halberds as the additional attack is more important than a first strike against most opponents. Nothing that really hurts paladins S8+ is striking before them or cannot be harmed by S5 I6, ie powerfists, thunderhammers, DCCWs.

For ICs, the sword is generally the most solid choice as possessing a 3++ in CC drastically increases survival. The weapons that scare a GM, BC, or Librarian are S8+ and striking at I7 S5 is not going to help, but a 3++ will increase your survivability against those high strenght low iniative attacks. You stand and an equal chance swinging at I5 S5 against I1 attacks as you do at I7 S5 off killing the model off before it can swing, but increase your odds of survival by 33%.

These are lean efficient squad setups.
See now that was the answer I was looking for. + Rep

PL
 
1 - 20 of 21 Posts
Top