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This is probably a stupid question, I'm probably just not reading something correctly. Do Carnifexes have to test for instinctual behavior if not within synapse range? I was under the impression that since they were fearless, they never had to take tests like this.
 

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Yes they actually still do just like lictors (however strange that is...) but if they do somehow fail the test they don't move at all (via Nid FAQ on GW site). Instead they will just lurk and shoot whatever weapon they do or don't have.
 

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It's a Trap!
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Lictor is right here. The GW FAQ, defines this behavior. Also the Frequently Asked Questions thread at the top of the page has a good explaination of why it works this way.

Good luck
 

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Which is pretty silly if you ask me.

Imagine your lictor. He's been shuffling through the undergrowth of a world, sneaking around to get into position to kill something. The brood is on the move, the hive-mind has decreed that the world will be devoured. the lictor creeps behind a sniper. He jumps out, ready for the kill. Oops, after all that pre-planning he fails his roll and just mills around for awhile. The sniper turns, kills him and continues on his way. 8X
 

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Charitably Tables People
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Well, the funny thing is, the Lictor's rule about fearless explains that it is directly driven by the implacable alien will of the hive mind, or something similar, implying that the Hive Mind is in direct contact with the Lictor at all times. I've always thought it should be in synapse wherever it is (not be a synapse creature, mind you, but always count as being within synapse).
 

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Watcher In The Sky
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Either that or give it brood telapathy like the other main vanguard organism (Genestealers). I know lictors dont come in broods but...
 

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I think lictors needing synpase is something that GW rather overlooked whilst writing the codex. It certainly makes little sense fluff wise or tactically wise for a unit like the lictor which Must appear in deepstriking to need synapse to full function. That said though he does have a decent LD value, so its not too bad - but a turn lurking is not fun!
(note they don't need to have a test on thier first turn in after deepstriking - no movment phase, so no need to test)
 

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Yeah, they had to have missed the boat. The only saving grace is the higher LD. However there's nothing more frusterating than actually finding a viable target for the lictor and then failing your leadership roll the next turn.
 

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however, if he is in cover then he gets not only his own bonus to cover but also the lurking bonus as well - so chances are that you might get away without taking any damage at all - but it is a risk!
 

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Since I have yet to play a game with my Tyranids, I had a look trough the codex and the rules just to see how synapse and fearless really works in detail for my army.

This has probably been discussed a thousand times, but I haven't so I'm gonna say it anyways. The rules for synapse and instincive behaviour applies to tyranid broods. The hive tyrant, lictors, zoanthropes and carnifexes doesen't come in broods, so never get the benefit of synapse nor the penalty of instinctive behaviour.

Some of the FAQ indicate this isn't true, but the anwsers given are in fact of a general nature, and doesen't nessesarily address what the person asking the question was specificially wanting to know. The answers, for example, say that a tyranid creature under influence of synapse cannot be instantly killed by a wraithcannon, but it doesen't acually say that a carnifex cannot be killed by one even if within the synapse range of a synapse creature.

So I'm gonna be an ass(is it leagal to say "ass" on this forum?), and claim that lictors, zoanthropes and carnifexes outside of synapse never test for instinctive behaviour, but hive tyrants can be instantly killed by str 10 weapons, and all of them by wraithcannons regardless of synapse.

If..on the other hand..i'm being a prickety pr*ck, and are infact wrong, then that means you can land one lictor within synapse, and have the other two count as within synapse even of on the other side of the table. ;)
 

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No, they count as independent units on the tabletop. Synapse does not refer to just broods, per say. It is Tyranids in general, with exceptions noted.

Also, the double correction for your rules checking is that Hive Tyrants are Toughness 6, and so can never be killed by S10 weapons to begin with.
 

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No, they count as independent units on the tabletop. Synapse does not refer to just broods, per say. It is Tyranids in general, with exceptions noted.

Also, the double correction for your rules checking is that Hive Tyrants are Toughness 6, and so can never be killed by S10 weapons to begin with.

Ah, right you are on the toughness part.
However, regarding the first part, do you have a rules referance? ..Cause, my codex specify broods.
 

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Mau'Dib
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while that is an interesting (if asinine) approach to synapse there's one major problem with it. Brood and Unit are used interchangeably when referring to tyranids. A unit of tyranids is a brood of tyranids, and so technically, a Carnifex is a brood. It's just a brood of one unit.

The section on insta-gib in particular refers to creatures, if you must be a brood to be in synapse, then how do individual creatures (most notably the synapse creature itself) come to be in range?

The only real problem here is that Brood == unit, and a Carnifex, zoanthrope etc. are thus all units, and broods.
 

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GW Online : News : Errata

go to the tyranids FAQ - source there

The point you are making is the second bullet point of the synapse rules (from the FAQ);
"Tyranids within Synapse range as described above
(including the Synapse Creature itself) are not
affected by the Instant Death rule. Note that this
does not apply to Ripper Swarms."

While this shows that I was wrong about wraithcannons, the points about the synapse influence on leadership, and instinctive behaviour, still stands.


while that is an interesting (if asinine) approach to synapse there's one major problem with it. Brood and Unit are used interchangeably when referring to tyranids. A unit of tyranids is a brood of tyranids, and so technically, a Carnifex is a brood. It's just a brood of one unit.

The section on insta-gib in particular refers to creatures, if you must be a brood to be in synapse, then how do individual creatures (most notably the synapse creature itself) come to be in range?

The only real problem here is that Brood == unit, and a Carnifex, zoanthrope etc. are thus all units, and broods.
Your interpetation of the rules are indeed the way most of us (me included) would initially interpit them. However, given the lawyary nature of games, one has to look closer at the wording. The words "brood" and "unit" are indeed both used, but not for the same things. Where they use "brood" in relation to rules, they do so trough the whole of the codex. I haven't found any place where the codex calls a "brood" a "unit" in relation to a rule where the word "brood" was first used.

However, if you are to find the opposite to be true, then my statement about how synapse works would indeed prove to be false. If so, I would appriciate it if you would post where in the codex you found the proof I need to put an end to my heresy. ;)
 

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Mau'Dib
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read my response, you're assuming that only multiple model broods are what this refers to, when in fact it refers to all broods, including "Carnifex broods" and zoanthrope "broods." Broods == units for us, so go through there, replace the word brood with the word unit (as the entry does several times) and see if you come up with the same interpretation.
 

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Charitably Tables People
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Yeah, Harkonen is right. If you purchase a single Zoanthrope, for instance, it is still a brood. Brood =/= multiples in the Tyranid Codex.

This is further backed up b/c Carnifexes and other things are referred to as acting x or y way when in synapse in both the FAQ and the rulebook.
 

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read my response, you're assuming that only multiple model broods are what this refers to, when in fact it refers to all broods, including "Carnifex broods" and zoanthrope "broods." Broods == units for us, so go through there, replace the word brood with the word unit (as the entry does several times) and see if you come up with the same interpretation.
No, I am assuming the specific term "brood", in relation to the rule where the term was used exclusivly, refers to the title entry for every tyranid unit that counts as a brood in relation to said rule. Since Lictors, Hive Tyrants, Carnifexes and Zoantropes does not have "brood" as part of their title, they do not count as a brood in relation to synapse and instinctive behaviour.


Yeah, Harkonen is right. If you purchase a single Zoanthrope, for instance, it is still a brood. Brood =/= multiples in the Tyranid Codex.

This is further backed up b/c Carnifexes and other things are referred to as acting x or y way when in synapse in both the FAQ and the rulebook.
As I said in my earlier post.. While this is indeed the intuitive way of looking at it, it doesen't mean this view is in accordance to acual rules. The rules in this case uses a specific term that we take as a fluffy word for unit. What if it is not? Do we really have any reason to interpit "brood" as a fluffy word for "unit"? Keeping GW rules traditions in mind, it seems to me we may have been wrong.

The rulebook and FAQ does in fact NOT say that "Carnifexes and other things are referred to as acting x or y way when in synapse".
 
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