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I think im a bit foggy on how many models have to be in
synapse range in order for the squad to be considered
in range. So anyone out there know?
 

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señor brushman!
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On pg. 28, first bullet of the Tyranid codex has the answer to your question.

The short answer is, 1 model of the brood must be within synapse range.

Ben
 

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Also, that one model doesn't have to be fully within the Synapse radius. As long as it even touches the edge of the radius, the squad is under Synapse.
 

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Synapse= way too good
Tyranids= way too good
way too good= stupid

Seriously, the only slight weakness about the new codex was the lack of OOE. And what is the first thing they do after it comes out? Make him chapter approved, and you don't even need to ask your opponent!

There is actually no weakness to the tyranids. Everything is too good. e.g. Hormagaunts- used to be the cheap stuff you threw at guys to stop them from shooting. They would only last a couple of turns, but that was their purpose. Now, however, you can upgrade them so that one unit can chew through 3000 pts of Orks and Necrons!

'Stealers- used to be fairly good, but you would have time to shoot them as they slogged it up the field. Now, however, they have Fleet, and, again, can be upgraded so that they can take down anything! It takes 4, maybe 5 genestealers to take down a bloody 360 pt C'tan in one turn, without it having a hope of striking back!

Rippers are now good enough to actually be worried about- from range and CC! I won't even mention the carnifexes!
 

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Tunisia said:
Synapse= way too good
Tyranids= way too good
way too good= stupid

Seriously, the only slight weakness about the new codex was the lack of OOE. And what is the first thing they do after it comes out? Make him chapter approved, and you don't even need to ask your opponent!

There is actually no weakness to the tyranids. Everything is too good. e.g. Hormagaunts- used to be the cheap stuff you threw at guys to stop them from shooting. They would only last a couple of turns, but that was their purpose. Now, however, you can upgrade them so that one unit can chew through 3000 pts of Orks and Necrons!

'Stealers- used to be fairly good, but you would have time to shoot them as they slogged it up the field. Now, however, they have Fleet, and, again, can be upgraded so that they can take down anything! It takes 4, maybe 5 genestealers to take down a bloody 360 pt C'tan in one turn, without it having a hope of striking back!

Rippers are now good enough to actually be worried about- from range and CC! I won't even mention the carnifexes!

Eh..OOE was never that important as he is a CC carnifex and those usually are useless.
 

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Tunisia said:
Synapse= way too good
Tyranids= way too good
way too good= stupid

Seriously, the only slight weakness about the new codex was the lack of OOE. And what is the first thing they do after it comes out? Make him chapter approved, and you don't even need to ask your opponent!

There is actually no weakness to the tyranids. Everything is too good. e.g. Hormagaunts- used to be the cheap stuff you threw at guys to stop them from shooting. They would only last a couple of turns, but that was their purpose. Now, however, you can upgrade them so that one unit can chew through 3000 pts of Orks and Necrons!

'Stealers- used to be fairly good, but you would have time to shoot them as they slogged it up the field. Now, however, they have Fleet, and, again, can be upgraded so that they can take down anything! It takes 4, maybe 5 genestealers to take down a bloody 360 pt C'tan in one turn, without it having a hope of striking back!

Rippers are now good enough to actually be worried about- from range and CC! I won't even mention the carnifexes!
Nids do have their weaknesses. like a gaunt has 3WS 3T and a 6+sv? ANY ap will kill them. They also took away the mutation thingy?(iam 4th ed new) and now our gaunts depend on a Zonathrope,Warriors,Hive tyrants or a brood lord. a melta gun will kill a warrior in 2 hits ea. So the nid weakness is the fact that we have to depend on our synapse unlike in 3rd ed, where you can put a hive node in a gaunts head and his squad is in synapse or it creates synapse...sumthing like that. i dono and agian iam only 4th ed, new i just got the hive node off some small info
 

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Supreme Evil Overlord
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Nids have become a lot more depended on synapse in this edition so it makes sense that synapse provides some damn good benefits.
 

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As I said, the gaunts can be upgraded to uber death machines- the poor T, WS and Sv can all be upgraded. They strike before anything else anyway, and they move and charge further than most guns can shoot, other than heavy weapons, which you don't want to be wasting on killing maybe one or two gaunts.

being out of synapse range isn't all that bad now either. Before, there was a chance you would run away, or towards cover, or jump at a CC unit that could easily wipe you out, but now all you have to do is hang around for a turn while your HT gets into range. And thre are no negatives in combat.

Anyway, about half of the army has synapse anyway, and pretty much any good list has ample synapse creatures. But, being fearless and impossible to insta-kill when in range? Way too good.

The mutable genus has been replaced with the individual upgrades, and so there wasn't really any loss there.

TMCs were lost, but now their abilities have been conferred to everything anyway (except the MC stuff)!

It's insane!
 

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Tunisia said:
As I said, the gaunts can be upgraded to uber death machines- the poor T, WS and Sv can all be upgraded.
The Toughness cannot be upgraded on Gaunts. Upgrading the save does little as most basic weapons are AP5 anyway. Honestly, the easiest way to stop a horde of Gaunts is to put something big that they can't hurt in front of them. Dreadnaughts, Taloses, and Wraithlords work wonders for this purpose.

They strike before anything else anyway, and they move and charge further than most guns can shoot, other than heavy weapons, which you don't want to be wasting on killing maybe one or two gaunts.
Start 24" away, the Gaunts move 6" and fleet 1 to 6 more. Enemy units with rapid-fire weapons are now 12 to 17 inches away. Move them 6" forward and the Gaunts get dead. Gaunts are also especially vulnerable to charges by assault units.

being out of synapse range isn't all that bad now either. Before, there was a chance you would run away, or towards cover, or jump at a CC unit that could easily wipe you out, but now all you have to do is hang around for a turn while your HT gets into range. And thre are no negatives in combat.
Meanwhile, that unit is sitting doing nothing, leaving it a turn to get shot at or for the opponent to instead decide to shoot at the approaching Synapse Creatures. Gaunts losing combat while outside of Synapse means almost certain flight. I've made my Ld5 check a grand total of two times since the new Codex came out.

Anyway, about half of the army has synapse anyway, and pretty much any good list has ample synapse creatures. But, being fearless and impossible to insta-kill when in range? Way too good.
The Instant Death immunity is admittedly very stupid.

The mutable genus has been replaced with the individual upgrades, and so there wasn't really any loss there.
Indeed, it is rather silly. The intention was not to tone down upgradability, though, but to make Tyranid army lists less confusing.
 

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As has been said above, its enough to have one model within synapse range, which is why a lot of tyranid players move their gaunt units so they're leaving a trail of gaunts, its either that or flying synapse.

As for Tunisia's posts...

Yes, gaunts can be upgraded but a fully upgraded hormagaunt costs more than a spacemarine, and the marine can easily shoot it down due to the crummy armour save.
In fact, you can upgrade just about all tyranids to become either scary shooty monsters or near unbeatable CC monsters, but they become expensive... and that is one of the biggest weakness of the tyranid army, the fact that you can customize your army so much that you end up with a handfull of models, which any experienced general should be able to kill.

True, synapse is very powerfull, but if you're clever you will simply shoot the synapse, leaving the gaunts stranded and more or less useless, lurking doesnt help hormagaunts and it doesnt allow you to hold table quarters.

Yes, genestealers are dangerous but they're also expensive and rending isnt a surefire thing.. although if you charge a C'tan or wraithlord into a unit of genestealers, you're asking for trouble.

In short, all armies have their weakness, and a clever opponent will make use of that, if you're having trouble against nids, maybe you're not clever :p


Ohh yeah, as for the "cant be insta killed" thing, it ONLY works against weapons with strength thats twice as high as your toughness, wraitcannons and so on still work.
 

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Gorbass said:
Ohh yeah, as for the "cant be insta killed" thing, it ONLY works against weapons with strength thats twice as high as your toughness, wraitcannons and so on still work.
...Well I guess that's actually what the rule says, now that I look at it again. Warriors and zoanthropes get instakilled by lascannons and railguns and some other SM and CSM special effect weapons. That's bad for my synapse.

My group had assumed from the way it was written up in sample battles with the 4th ed Tyranids in WD that the rule applied to all possibilities for instakill.
 

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andrewthotep said:
My group had assumed from the way it was written up in sample battles with the 4th ed Tyranids in WD that the rule applied to all possibilities for instakill.
I never read any of the sample battles, but the description in the codex makes it pretty clear as to what types of Instant Death are nullified. *shrugs* I guess part of the problem is that GW doesn't enforcie naming standards particularily well (assuming they have any at all), so certain terms get reused in often conflicting or otherwise confusing situations.
 

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Of course.
 

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This discussion kind of diverged, but it's a good one.

I agree the Tyranid adjustmets got a lot of "good"s and almost no bads.

Still, the Tyranids suffer from IMO 2 big weaknesses (and synapse aint one of them):
- It has almost no weapons with AP
- It has few units that can get a decent save with AP (heck, invuls are pretty much non-existent on nids)

The AP means that just about any shooting done by the nids will be rolled for saves including power armor. You know hard it will be to shoot down Termies before they reach you in cc?

And for nids either they are fast and their saves suck, or their saves are good but they are slow. There are a few exceptions, but still, the whole "swarm" concept of tyranids has been nerfed IMO.
 

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Nids have thier weakness.
1) Hvy bolters will do wonders on guants,hormagaunts,genestealers and warriors. Also hvy flamers
2) Skimmers are a pain in the butt.... We need 6 hit them in hth combat
3) Our best wpn is venom cannon and it can not pen vehicles and it is best ap wpn also and that is at ap4.
4) Being outisde of synapse is not a good thing. It is important that you keep within synapse range at all times
5)Most of our units have bs3

So nids have thier problems too. I ran into major problems when I faced an hvy skimmer eldar palyer and hvy skimmer dark eldar player. Every army has advantages and disadvantages. It is player who learns and overcomes his disadvantages will win the game.
bonekrusher
 

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Huh? Rending doesn't ignore Invulnerable Saves.
 

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bonekrusher said:
Nids have thier weakness.
1) Hvy bolters will do wonders on guants,hormagaunts,genestealers and warriors. Also hvy flamers
2) Skimmers are a pain in the butt.... We need 6 hit them in hth combat
3) Our best wpn is venom cannon and it can not pen vehicles and it is best ap wpn also and that is at ap4.
4) Being outisde of synapse is not a good thing. It is important that you keep within synapse range at all times
5)Most of our units have bs3

So nids have thier problems too. I ran into major problems when I faced an hvy skimmer eldar palyer and hvy skimmer dark eldar player. Every army has advantages and disadvantages. It is player who learns and overcomes his disadvantages will win the game.
bonekrusher
1) Heavy bolters are the bane of nids. Luckily people don't tend to field too many of them (except IG).
2) Skimmers are easily dealt with by a Gunfex, Devilfex, or Devourer-Tyrant. I always bring at least two of the three.
3) AP really hurts, no doubt about it. The power of shooty nids is the volume of fire, not the quality of it. Your only hope is to use the odds and make them roll a lot of saves. Thankfully living ammo really helps us do that.
4) Definitely. There are only a very few nid models that can benefit from being outside synapse. It is a very powerful tool when used properly and devastating when it's forgotten.
5) Carnis have BS2 standard. That really sucks. But hey, we're a CC army right?
 
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