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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
I understand I recieved loads of flak for my recent Custom Character post, shame. I believe it's less "OTT" now. I'm using a Forgeworld weapon loadout; to give the character some unique attributes.

Stats:
WS 4
BS 5
S 5
T 4
W 4
I 3
A 4
Ld 10
Sv 3+

Wargear:
Hard-Wired Multi-Tracker
Hard-wired Drone Controller
XV22 Battlesuit (With integrated Sheild Generator, as per GW rules)
Stimulant Injector
Plasma Rifle
Phased Ion Gun
Fusion Cascade

Not a thing on these lists is "homebrew," except perhaps the use of an XV22 suit as opposed to an XV8 on my cadre's Shas'o. I hope this meets LO muster- perhaps those who intend to criticise could also lend some constructive feedback. Thanks!
 

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Remove the costs for the forgeworld gear ASAP.
Seriously watch out for that it can get ya banned.

3 weapons seems a bit overkill for a suit of armor battlesuit barely able to use 2 weapons effectively.
Personally I would probably drop the fusion cascade, getting too close with a special character wouldn't sit well with me...

Also are the drones a forced selection or free to select(as per the tau codex rules any model taking a drone controller MUST take at least 1 drone)?

Also again I really doubt you could feasibly have T5 on a suit of armor wearing model, think about it terminators are just as armored as a XV22 and they still have T4. Unless there is a special character that I am not aware of with the fluff to explain it somewhere, it doesn't seem feasible.

Other than those little items it seems like a good character.
 

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Agree with Seriph.
Drop the T5 to T4, its just not gonna happen. Any unit like this is never above T4. We know you want it to help stop instant death (dont we all) but its still overkill. It would have to be much bulkier to have it meaning D6 movement and no movement in assult (like a broadside but even that is not T5)
Also how would this model carry all three of those guns. I again agree with Seriph that dropping the fusion would make sense.
None of it is homebrew but your still taking things from Xv25's, XV8's and XV9's and then giving it T5.
Drop the fusion cascade and the T5 to T4 and i would be happy to try a game against it before deciding if its OTT, depending on the points cost of course.
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Well- thanks to Blood Seriph for the timely information. I was unaware! Mistake corrected. About the T5 issue- as a Tau player, it deeply infuriates me every time a lone Terminator slaps a Shas'o battlesuit and it keels over dead. Forgeworld's Shas'o Ra'lai has a T5, and that was the precedent I had been using. If anyone thinks this is a poor/unusable precedent, I'll reduce the Toughness. On the Fusion Cascade side of things, should I use a Fusion Blaster instead? Also, as far as points are concerned, the Character + Wargear comes out to 175 points even. This is probably due to the relative cheapness of Tau upgrades. All of the guns fit on the model (It's currently under construction).
 

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If you dont want your Shas'O to get slapped keep him off the front lines. The fact of the matter is unless you get nailed by a STR8+ weapon you dont need to worry much, most of the time they miss or you can shift that wound to some cannon fodder, otherwise you just have to deal with it.

R'alia pilots the XV9, a fast attack skirmisher mech armor meant to go into assault range.
The XV22, is an enhanced version of the XV15/25 which are nothing more than over glorified suits of armor capable of mounting 2 battlesuit weapons.
You'll have to choose which you want more, melee survivability or ranged invisibility...

Fusion cascade seems better than the blaster but the point is, that the XV22 is a suit of armor that can barely accommodate 2 weapons let alone 3, unless your willing to add a rule that allows weapon swaps during your move but reduces your move to a non jump(cant use jump jet rule's) D6 move for that round, then you should drop a weapon.

Regardless of my criticism or thoughts, I would love to see pics of how the model turns out.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 · (Edited)
Interesting point about the switching weapons- I could designate two weapons per turn, before the movement phase, for "use" that turn. If they differ from those selected the turn before (not counting the first turn), the move phase movement of the model would be reduced to D6. That might work.
About melee survivability/ranged invisibility-
One, my main foes play Orcs, Space Marines, and Tau Empire. They constantly get Terminators or Nobz into close range and give the Tau a brutal beating- obviously. The melee survivability factor calms the nerves somewhat, but then again, it shouldn't. The Tau are meant to get pummeled in Close Combat. I'll reduce the Toughness to 4.
Two, I could fit about six guns on the XV22 if I wanted, but I'm keeping to the 3-"hardpoint" requirement for Shas'o commanders (I know the suit is smaller- tough.)
With the added jetpack move, the suit's function will probably just be to dance out of range of foes, sniping with its Plasma Rifle.

An added note- the XV22 "comes" with the Shield Generator and the Stealth Field. If it didn't, it'd just be a glorified XV8, albeit smaller. The XV22 functions not unlike the Tyranid Broodlord; a smaller, lighter version of the larger command units. The only problem is that, other than the integrated wargear, the suit confers no extra benefits. Thus, I won't be removing either bonus for future reference.

If you're familiar with Shas'o Ra'lai's information, you'll notice that he can optionally fire a "Hyper-Density Sabot" with his main gun as a submunition. Given that I, sadly, do not posess a Railgun-equipped Hammerhead or Broadside at the time (yet), I was thinking of adding that submunition to the model- to make up for my lack of truly heavy weapons. I would say, though, that if it was fired on a given turn, no other weapons could be fired. That might sound too powerful, but I'll throw it out there.

Also, if you have any thoughts on the model's point value, 175, feel free to voice them. I know changes have been made.
 

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Technically the 3 hardpoint rule only applies to the XV8 since it is a weapons platform, not a suit of armor, again thats beside the point...

Think logically about what you want to do here, you want to add a weapons designed for a battlesuit; a cockpit driven battle armor supplied with its own power generator and motor systems that are manipulated via controls.

and you want to give it to a stealthsuit; a light semi mechanized suit of armor that allows for slight strength and defense increase with extra mobility to the wearer but must still manipulate its weapons and environment by hand.

I wont argue size issues concerning the weapons, however I will argue power management. No generator on a suit of armor can power a: stealthfield, cohesive field generator, 2+ energy based weapons, as well as life-support and jumpjets, and still function as normal.
It's just not possible no matter the century your in 40k or 400k.

Your points are fine and I see your balancing is good, but your putting too many things that rely on 1 system to power all of them and you want it too function exactly the same. Even R'alai's eclipse shield is limited due to power constraint issues, and its far larger than the XV22.

Looking at the stats is one thing, but I'd also take into account the logic factor of what you want to do. If you've ever played any game similar to the armored core games you should understand, everything needs to be balanced to have a functioning "weapon."

I'm not ragging on you or shooting you down this just looks like a guy wearing a heavy camo jumpsuit with a railgun an his back powered by a Duracell battery and still functioning as it should.
 

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Again Seriph has got it spot on.
You need to decide
You have have the multiple weapons or the stealth and shield gen, one or the other not both.
So are you basing it on the XV* (weapons) or XV22 (stealth and shield gen)

I would take it back to the drawing board. No oppenent is gonna want to play against what you are building at the moment. So if you want it to be usable you need to follow the rules better and think from the oppenents view.
I would be happy to play againts what you have (before you started taking about the HS weapons) if it didn't have the stealth as it just doesn't fit with the rest. If it is a stealth it should be small etc not having tons of guns etc.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
I would be happy to play againts what you have (before you started taking about the HS weapons) if it didn't have the stealth as it just doesn't fit with the rest. If it is a stealth it should be small etc not having tons of guns etc.
Based on what Rafici is saying, would you all agree that the removal of the stealth field generator would (a) free up enough "power" to mount the rest of the upgrades, and (b) restructure the suit for a more "balanced" purpose?
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
I'm not ragging on you or shooting you down this just looks like a guy wearing a heavy camo jumpsuit with a railgun an his back powered by a Duracell battery and still functioning as it should.
An added point- the Tau Empire has the most advanced technology of any faction, bar none. Commander Shadowsun uses the XV22 with 4 hardpoints: Two Fusion Blasters, One Shield Generator, and one Stealth Field Generator. Thus, the removal of the Fusion Blasters and the Stealth Field Generator would free up theee hardpoints- for a Fusion Cascade, Plasma Rifle, and Phased Ion Gun. Seems fair to me.
 

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An added point- the Tau Empire has the most advanced technology of any faction, bar none.
Nitpick - the Tau empire are the technological primatives of the 40k universe, they just don't have all the hang-ups and regression that plague the other races.

As for the (currently) listed character, probably something a little shy of 200 points working from a Shas'o. You do seem to like loading up on weapons.
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 · (Edited)
Nitpick - the Tau empire are the technological primatives of the 40k universe, they just don't have all the hang-ups and regression that plague the other races.

As for the (currently) listed character, probably something a little shy of 200 points working from a Shas'o. You do seem to like loading up on weapons.
The fluff explains quite a bit about how technologically advanced the Tau are. That aside, I very much do like "loading up on weapons." I had the character at 215 points a bit ago, but I deleted the Stealth Field Generator and T5 (based on user comments)- I think it makes sense to cost it, now, at 175.
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 · (Edited)
(before you started taking about the HS weapons)
Based on this quote- if I understood it correctly- does anyone have qualms about me loading the Hyper-Density sabot as alternative ammunition onto my model? See Forgworld Shas'o Ra'lai for stats.
 

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I understand I recieved loads of flak for my recent Custom Character post, shame. I believe it's less "OTT" now. I'm using a Forgeworld weapon loadout; to give the character some unique attributes.

Stats:
WS 4
BS 5
S 5
T 4
W 4
I 4
A 4
Ld 10
Sv 3+

Wargear:
Hard-Wired Multi-Tracker
Hard-wired Drone Controller
XV22 Battlesuit (With integrated Sheild Generator, as per GW rules)
Stimulant Injector
Plasma Rifle
Phased Ion Gun
Fusion Cascade

Not a thing on these lists is "homebrew," except perhaps the use of an XV22 suit as opposed to an XV8 on my cadre's Shas'o. I hope this meets LO muster- perhaps those who intend to criticise could also lend some constructive feedback. Thanks!
think it would make it more acceptable.
The cost of all that wargear is this
- the 3 weapons = 69 points (since to get the XV9 guns on something the suit should have 2 lots of twin linked burst cannons to replace, so i have added that cost in too.
Add stim inject, HWDC, HWMT and shield gen and we are up to 104/109points (sheild gen on XV9's are 5 points more but for this purpose we will use the normal codex price. So 104 points.
Now add the cost of a Shas'o and we are at 179 points. The only thing that is different is it should be I3 not I4.
I would say the higher ! is worth about 10-15 points. if you wanted to keep it.

So what you have now seems an exceptable build and point level and i would be willing to try it. The whole stealth thing wasn't really worth it anyway since to use most of your guns you would need to be close.

To get the T5 i think your looking about 40/50 points extra to make it simular to the price of R’alai

You have it slightly wrong - Elder has tech far beyond tau - just look at their plasma weapons and their skimmers. However, i believe your point is that tau's tech has advanced more than any other race in the last 10,000 years and will continue to get better untill they do match elder (unless someone stops them first lol)
 
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The fluff explains quite a bit about how technologically advanced the Tau are
The imperium has autonomous adaptive nano technology ... in it's door locks. Controlled total matter-energy converters ... as mining tools.
They build energy fields into jewelry and hand them out to priests, there are decadent hive-world lords who's armour grows and adapts itself (spyrer suits for instance), they have invisibility screens that actually make you invisible ... and can casually crush power armour as a side effect, and for one reason or another the DAoT humans decided to move the entire Sol system to a different part of the galaxy at some point...

Current 40k humanity doesn't really know how most of it's stuff works, but they do understand enough to create and replicated it to a degree. Even the molecular disruption technology of power weapons is beyond the tau - it's all black box tech to them.

And humanity is far and away the most primative of the major powers.


See Forgworld Shas'o Ra'lai for stats.
Why not just play with Ra'lai? - he's got the T5, shield generator, advanced weaponry...
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 · (Edited)
Hmm- you're totally right about the Eldar, Rafici. But they had more time, much more time...

I accept your point value of 179, and will reduce the initiative to three- however, it doesn't really match the XV22's fluff, does it (the experimental suit is supposed to be fast). On grounds of OCD, I will increase the cost of the character to 180, a much more round number than 179.
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
Why not just play with Ra'lai? - he's got the T5, shield generator, advanced weaponry...
Well, I havn't got Ra'lai.
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
Based on this quote- if I understood it correctly- does anyone have qualms about me loading the Hyper-Density sabot as alternative ammunition onto my model? See Forgworld Shas'o Ra'lai for stats.
Any thoughts? I'd probably add a rule saying that if fired, no other weapons could be fired that turn.
 

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no maybe add a few more points for it maybe 5 or 10 at most. I like the idea of only being able to fire it.
On another note the XV8 is fast it can move 12" a turn and still fire - thats good. No other suit can move better than that (equal but not better) ]

Good luck. Take what you have now, finish the model (show us a pic) and then play test it - after 2 or 3 games evaluate it with a friend (hopefully the oppenent)
There is nothing wrong with it being feared and deadly as long as it is in reason - there are pleanty of super strong special characters out there that people fear.
You may decide that the points is too much or too little
you may realise that having 3 different weapons (and paying for them) is wasteful
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 · (Edited)
Good luck. Take what you have now, finish the model (show us a pic) and then play test it - after 2 or 3 games evaluate it with a friend (hopefully the oppenent)
Thanks! I've made some progress with the conversion- a few notes:

1. I only, as of now, own Commander Shadowsun, an XV8 Battlesuit, and the Tau Battleforce.
2. The parts I'm using for the conversion are:
-Commander Shadowsun's XV22, minus one fusion blaster and minus its base, plus her optional jetpack.
-The Burst Cannon from an XV25.
-The Plasma Rifle from the XV8.
-An ammunition belt bit from the Kroot Carnivores set.
-The ammunition 'box' from the XV8 flamer.

My webcam can only transmit a fuzzy, black outline, so I'll post a real picture when I get my real camera up and running.

Anyway, Shadowsun's base has been removed, and I'll mount the character on a short flying stand (same 25mm base, though). I attached her jetpack, and helmet as opposed to her head. I cut off one of the metal fusion blasters, and glued an XV25 burst cannon in place, modified with the belt-feed from the Kroot Carnivores set. This will be my stand-in for the Phased Ion Cannon. I then glued a Plasma Rifle parallel to the XV22's remaining Fusion Blaster, and "improved" it with an XV8 Famer ammunition box (the bit that usually sits on top of the flamer). The Fusion Blaster (with extra ammunition) and its coaxial Plasma Rifle will be my stand in for a Fusion Cascade and coaxial Plasma Rifle. Other than that, there's not a whole lot more I can add, most Tau upgrades are hard-wired or otherwise invisible. I might cut up a Sensor Spines vehicle upgrade to create a back-banner type array, purely for show.
 
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