[palasarop]

i recently played my first game with the daemons.it was only 500 points.i ended up winning and he said after "im never playing your daemons again in anything under 1000points ive decided to get my daemons up to 2k after christmas and to turn his words against him i want to make the cheesiest army imaginable(lol)anyone have any suggestions?

 

[Rork]

And all he'll say is "I won't play anything less than 3000 points" etc.

Being Lord Beardo of Cheesington Hall isn't all that. Wiping your opponent off the table doesn't take skill - Take an army that actually has some tactical elements to it. A good mix of infantry and cavalry without too many power dice.

Ironically, it's a pretty vicious army with daemons.

 

[palasarop]

And all he'll say is "I won't play anything less than 3000 points" etc.

Being Lord Beardo of Cheesington Hall isn't all that. Wiping your opponent off the table doesn't take skill - Take an army that actually has some tactical elements to it. A good mix of infantry and cavalry without too many power dice.

Ironically, it's a pretty vicious army with daemons.

i think i might have seen a really cheesy daemon army today at the GW but it might just be because the guy is an amazing fluker.he had a nurgle daemon army with:
note:dont know what characters had
GUO
lvl4
dont know what items he had
herald of nurgle
BSB
banner of hellfire(i think)
lvl1 wizard

epidumis

3x20 pb
FC

5nurglings

1 beast of nurgle

he was playing a VC army,no idea how wer equipped since know nothing bout VC

mannfred

vampirex3

2x20 skeletons

20 grave guard

10 crypt ghouls

1 corpse cart

2 varghulfs

the VC wer completely wiped out because the nurgle simply wouldnt die at 1 point 20pb with the herald were chargd in the front by skellies(i think 15) in the flank by a varghulf and in the rear by 11 summoned zombies,the pb wiped out the skellies and zombies(attacks and cr killed them)and killed the varghulf next turn.of course epidemus was loving thisthe vc player conceded after pb destroyed his GG.was this army cheesy or is the guy just amazing with dice?

 

[jy2]

All-nurgle is a strong build and kinda cheesy, but it isn't undefeatable. Get a magic heavy list with something like 1 archmage and 3 mages (in 2000pts) and have them all take the lore of fire. Then watch the pb's all go up in smoke. Unfortunately, I believe vampires may only take necromantic spells (or spells from their own codex).

 

[Rork]

All-nurgle is a strong build and kinda cheesy, but it isn't undefeatable. Get a magic heavy list with something like 1 archmage and 3 mages (in 2000pts) and have them all take the lore of fire. Then watch the pb's all go up in smoke. Unfortunately, I believe vampires may only take necromantic spells (or spells from their own codex).

Please. It's an army book.

Vampires can take other lores, but to be really versatile they have to pay to get anything beyond death.

 

[Digger]

flames to cancel regeneration

i guess this points out that there is no 'cheesiest list ever' for daemons, there are alot of powerfull playlists, each has weaknesses, so it depends on the opponent or whats played most in your town.
Full nurgle with epidiemus is one list, funnilly that one usually looks exactly like the list you just named

somewhere else Rork listed the options that are best suited for an easy victory, maybe use that to make a generic list

after all, if your enemy knows what you will bring, that's a weakness allready

 

[swntzu]

Surely a list based kairos or one with a bloodthirster and sirensong would be better than the above list?

 

[Digger]

personally i think kairos is the worst because it gets about 20 magic dice and the games become a bit onesided, khorne and nurgle at least have some actual combat in it xD

obviously kairos and his horrors have a big problem when his opponent has 4 units of dragonprinces
or perhaps a khornelist where everything has magicresistance


-edit-
if its better i dont know, people anticipate heavy magic more than medium magic with regeneration.
the mentioned nurgle list wins tournies all over the place

 

[Rork]

somewhere else Rork listed the options that are best suited for an easy victory, maybe use that to make a generic list

http://www.librarium-online.com/forums/daemons-chaos/183042-daemons-cheesy.html#post1593331

The "C'est fromage, c'est bon" option. Or maybe Daemonic Paint by Numbers.

 

[Mastershake]

All-nurgle is a strong build and kinda cheesy, but it isn't undefeatable. Get a magic heavy list with something like 1 archmage and 3 mages (in 2000pts) and have them all take the lore of fire. Then watch the pb's all go up in smoke. Unfortunately, I believe vampires may only take necromantic spells (or spells from their own codex).

I've certainly played the army enough to know flaming isn't that big of a deal. PB blocks still feature respectable toughness, high model counts and ward saves. You aren't bringing one to it's knees with magic unless you get ridiculously lucky. Also, in pure Nurgle all of the hero slots are mages and the Lord is between a lvl1-4, so it musters enough dispel dice to shut down the most threatening spell.

On a side note though, you really can't use PB blocks in mixed armies. Nobody will willingly fight one of these units if you give them other options. They're generally strongest in a pure Nurgle army where your opponent can choose between the PB blocks or GUO niether of which are especially easy to bring down.

Nurglings and Beasts of nurgle are solid, but ironically don't actually fit in a pure nurgle list as they are still far easier to kill than the GUO or a block.

Wouldn't call the list cheesy though, nothing nurgle is fast, so your opponent has the option of simply not fighting and get half points for something through combined ranged/magic while moving in to all the quarters for a minor victory.

 

[jy2]

I actually played a mixed daemon list at 1500pts against 1800pts of Warriors of Chaos (and it was only my second game so far with them). I had a block of 20 bloodletters and a block of 20 plaguebearers with a herald in each (as well as some other units). I was actually winning until he was able to get a spell off on me from the Lore of Nurgle. He got lucky with an irresistible cast and it was the spell that causes you to take an initiative test. Needless to say, the herald and all but 2 plaguebearers were wiped out and I lost because of that. That one damn spell took away my glorious victory to give him a minor victory.

Anyways, the point is, spells against a Nurgle list that forces them to take an initiative test is the best answer to a Nurgle army.

 

[Mastershake]

Wow, you got cheated like a mother. The only Mortal Nurgle spell that requires I tests for the unit also requires the models to PASS an armor save to die. It's impossible for plaguebearers to die to this spell and a herald will only die if he's on a Palanquin and rolls a 6. Check enemy spells man, your opponent screwed you.

 

[sirisaacnuton]

I'm not sure where this thread is heading exactly, but I can definitely attest to the fact that an uber-magic Daemon army will by far pull down the most hate and the loudest calls of "cheese" or "TFG." It may not actually be the strongest Daemon build (an almost all-Khorne DoC army won 'Ard Boyz in a field that seemed chocked full of magicky Daemons, so who knows?) but it certainly ticks people off the most. Kairos, Heralds on Chariots, play utter points denial with flying everything, let them kill your Pink Horrors, and just deal with anything that threatens you with overwhelming magic. The army could care less about Dragon Princes if you take Master of Sorcery on the Heralds (which you should if you want the Heralds to make a meaningful contribution to the game).

At 2k, try something like this:

Kairos
2x Herald of Tzeentch, Chariot, Master of Sorc
Herald of Tzeentch, Chariot, Master of Sorc, BSB, Banner of Hellfire
3x 10 Pink Horrors
6 Flamers
Then with the extra points, throw either scrolls or Flames of Tzeentch on the Heralds (the scrolls are almost overkill for magic defense, but you certainly won't be out-magicked)

It takes a little bit of finesse in situations where the opponent has lots of fast blitzers, a flying monster, or skirmishers (particularly if there's some combination of all those) but in general you'll certainly get called out for having one of the cheesiest lists in any given group of people. People hate losing to overwhelming magic. About the only ones that just might not call you cheesey are people packing 6 Stegodons into 2k points, but even that's only a maybe.

 

[jy2]

Wow, you got cheated like a mother. The only Mortal Nurgle spell that requires I tests for the unit also requires the models to PASS an armor save to die. It's impossible for plaguebearers to die to this spell and a herald will only die if he's on a Palanquin and rolls a 6. Check enemy spells man, your opponent screwed you.

Hmmm...so you're saying it doesn't affect models without an armor save? Also, let me know if this is legal what he did.

He cast it at my plaguebearers while his mage was in combat with another unit. Also, does it affect flying units? He also used it to kill my Herald of Tzeentch who had the winged horror upgrade (and no armor).

 

[Mastershake]

It's not that it doesn't affect models without armor, simply that the spell only kills models if they pass an armor save, which is impossible if they have none.

You can cast out of combat (as it isn't a MM), however, you still need that whole LoS thing, so if he or his target is a Large Target he can (unless he's engaged with a large target). As PBs aren't a large target, he'd have to be mounted on something that is.

He also used it to kill my Herald of Tzeentch who had the winged horror upgrade (and no armor).

Doesn't affect flying, ethereal or amphibious models at all, and again that whole no armor makes this another illegal kill.

Cloying is trash against most of the Daemon list for these reasons.

 

[Digger]

Im affraid Mastershake is right -.-

Are you sure it was nurgle spells he used?...

Pit of Shades is a shadow spell, it has somewhat the effect your talking about, WoC may use this lore sometimes

 

[Mastershake]

Pit of shades is a small blast, it will still hurt somewhat but really isn't going to hit the whole unit. Ecstatic Seizures is a Slaaneshi spell similar to what you're talking about, but requires a Tough check not Init (unless you popped unbelievable levels of 5+'s I don't think this was the one)

 

[jy2]

Yeah, I remember he did say he got cloying quagmire, boiterous *something* (or was it bubonic *something*) and another pretty nasty spell from the Lores of Nurgle with his 2 Lvl 2 mages (both with 2 spells each).

 

[Executioner]

What do you guys think about this? :

Core:
2 Units of PBs
Epidemius with 1 unit of PB
Herald of Nurgle (BSB ) with 1 unit of PB

1 Unit of Horrors Command
Herald of Tzeentch

Rare Units:
Skullltaker on Bloodcrusher
3x Bloodcrushers of Khorne (Musician, SB, Champion)

5 Flamers


Some modifications you can have is put in Furies (in case of Cannons) and try to put in 1 Unit of Flesh Hounds of Khorne

 

[Rork]

Dump the crushers, put Skulltaker on a juggernaut with Flesh Hounds instead. Just as hard hitting, but with more wounds and thus more survivability.

You even get a load of points to spend on the furies as a result.