Librarium Online Forums banner
1 - 20 of 45 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
119 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Reading through some books again, and even the Codex's, the list of Space Marine Chapters isn't complete. Two of them have been deleted, their records forever lost in the sands of time... or were they? What information do we have on these two chapters? Why was their information removed from accessible databases? Who were the Primarchs? So many questions I can't find many answers too...


...your thoughts?
 

·
Formerly BrotherAzriel
Joined
·
2,373 Posts
It is generaly accapted that the 2 chapters were deliberatly left out by GW to enable players to come up with their own theorys and ideas on who they are and what has happened.
 
  • Like
Reactions: RecklessFable

·
Registered
Joined
·
119 Posts
Discussion Starter · #3 ·
It is generaly accapted that the 2 chapters were deliberatly left out by GW to enable players to come up with their own theorys and ideas on who they are and what has happened.
Now that we have that out of the way, the point was to share your thoughts on the idea.

I always thought "The Lost and the Damned" would be a good chapter since they didn't have a lot of information available to them and they sort of came back out of thin air.

Or perhaps there was some sort of terrible accident with their geneseed that the Emporer wanted to keep secret so other Chapters wouldn't go crazy with fear.

So many possibilities!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
225 Posts
Now that we have that out of the way, the point was to share your thoughts on the idea.

I always thought "The Lost and the Damned" would be a good chapter since they didn't have a lot of information available to them and they sort of came back out of thin air.

Or perhaps there was some sort of terrible accident with their geneseed that the Emporer wanted to keep secret so other Chapters wouldn't go crazy with fear.

So many possibilities!

I'm thinking that being chaos-tainted or a heretic wouldn't be enough to expunge one of the primarchs from imperial record. Hide that knowledge from the general public, sure. In several books the average joe doesn't even know the Horus Heresies occured and a chaos space marine abused that fact. But removing a primarch from imperial records would require something truely horrible. Even the stigma of mutation wouldn't be enough (case in point: Magus the Red and Sanguinius).
 

·
I'm back >.>
Joined
·
2,233 Posts
Um Lost and the Damned is not a marine chapter to start with, it is a pdf list of mutants and traitors and the Fire Hawks were a 21st founding so are not one of the lost chapters. Fire Hawks are supposedly now the Legion of the Damned. That rules out them entirely.
GW has left those two out for people to make their own chapters and fluff etc. And before it coems up Grey Knigths are not one of these. They were at least a second founding chapter of a unknown primarch supposedly the Emperor himself.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
199 Posts
And don't you think mentioning the Custodes, for they are technically not Space Marines, but more Mini-Primarchs. :)
 

·
Scenery Shogun
Joined
·
917 Posts
Space Marines (Warhammer 40,000) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

[edit] "Lost" Legions
In addition there are two other unnamed and undescribed First Founding Legions, Legions II and XI. Official lists of the First Founding Legions simply say that all records have been lost or destroyed since the Horus Heresy or by the Inquisition for its own reasons. Games Workshop has officially stated that they have been intentionally left unknown by the developers to allow players to make up their own background on the missing Legions. The second edition Ultramarines Codex suggests that these Legions seemed likely to have, at least initially, fought for Horus during the Heresy.

A common misconception among fans of the game is that the Grey Knights and the Legion of the Damned are the two missing First Founding Legions. This is incorrect - the Grey Knights, in actual fact, have no Primarch, and as such, their gene-seed is thought to come directly from the Emperor himself (more recent evidence seems to point to the Chapter originating from a loyalist contingent of the Death Guard Legion). They were formed during the Second Founding, and the Legion of the Damned are presumed to be the survivors of the Fire Hawks Chapter of the Cursed 21st Founding.[3] In older background, the Valedictors were a First Founding Legion but this was later changed.[4][5] Also, in the story "Hell in a Bottle", by Simon Jowett, which was included in the Black Library anthology, "Enter the Maelstrom", a Space Marine force named the Iron Hearts was briefly mentioned, along with the name of their "Primarch", Rubineck. The use of the term "Primarch" was later confirmed to be an error on the author's part, and has been corrected.

The Blood Ravens Chapter is known to be created from an unknown Primarch, but GW has slowly hinted that the Primarch is Magnus the Red of the Thousand Sons Traitor Legion, or possibly Lorgar of the Word Bearers- possible if they were founded from surviving loyalist remnants of those legions. Thus, the Blood Ravens' unknown Primarch may be one that is known, but the fact has been expunged from their chapter records. In former editions, they suggested that Sigmar could have been a Primarch, but this has been retconned.


and my favorite list someone sad and bored compiled...
List of Space Marine Chapters - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
199 Posts
And if i may add, is has nothing to do with the roman legions. I don't know who made this up, but the second and eleventh roman legion weren't destroyed or purged in their history. They were created and disbanded over and over again, just like any other legion.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
67 Posts
And if i may add, is has nothing to do with the roman legions. I don't know who made this up, but the second and eleventh roman legion weren't destroyed or purged in their history. They were created and disbanded over and over again, just like any other legion.
Last time I checked we were talking about Space Marine legions. Not the feudal servants of Roman despots.
 

·
God's nutcase
Joined
·
1,906 Posts
The reason there are two missing chapters is because when 40K was released there were no chapters, just the legions (although no primarchs, and stats for Leman Russ :p), and GW created it in order for players to make their own legions. And when the idea of chapters and primarchs happened in 2nd edition they just kept them in. They were never intended to have official material released about them.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4 Posts
My 2 Cents

Hi guys,
Just somethin to add to this, in the horus heresy series in one of the books horus see's that one of the vat thngs the primarch's were grown in was broken. Maybe one never survived although to contradict this, i did attend games day and read the specially fluff bit about Rogal Dorn walking along the hall of Primarch's that has a statue of each. It clearly says he reached the last two alcoves were the status had been removed long ago.
I had the idea that maybe in the emperors fight to control the entire galaxy maybe he sent 1 or 2 legions into the eye of terror to conquor it, and they turned bad/ were wiped out/ never heard from again. The emperor new that this was abad area and felt guilty and didnt want other people trying it.

Does anyone now how they travelled through the warp pre age of strife? Maybe when the emperor began the great crusade he hadnt set up the astronomican and thus chapters were lost in the warp? It does say that durng the age of strife people new of warp enteties but it seems by the tme of the great crusade this knowledge had been surpressed.

What if one of the missin promarchs was a squat and the other an ogryn, little and stumpy and thick as hell, im not surprised the emperor didnt want them!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
67 Posts
Hi guys,
Just somethin to add to this, in the horus heresy series in one of the books horus see's that one of the vat thngs the primarch's were grown in was broken. Maybe one never survived although to contradict this, i did attend games day and read the specially fluff bit about Rogal Dorn walking along the hall of Primarch's that has a statue of each. It clearly says he reached the last two alcoves were the status had been removed long ago.
I had the idea that maybe in the emperors fight to control the entire galaxy maybe he sent 1 or 2 legions into the eye of terror to conquor it, and they turned bad/ were wiped out/ never heard from again. The emperor new that this was abad area and felt guilty and didnt want other people trying it.

Does anyone now how they travelled through the warp pre age of strife? Maybe when the emperor began the great crusade he hadnt set up the astronomican and thus chapters were lost in the warp? It does say that durng the age of strife people new of warp enteties but it seems by the tme of the great crusade this knowledge had been surpressed.

What if one of the missin promarchs was a squat and the other an ogryn, little and stumpy and thick as hell, im not surprised the emperor didnt want them!
First off use proper spelling and grammar. Second it was impossible for humanity to use warp travel before the Eldar declined. Second, since all of the primarchs were children at the time the Emperor first saw them I don't really think that he would have sent them on missons. I don't even think the legions themselves were ready yet. Third, since all of the primarchs were created from the Emperors own flesh, I don't think that they are squats or Ogyrns. Also Ogryns are merely humans born on extremely high gravity world, it really isn't a mutation, more like a adaptation.
 

·
God's nutcase
Joined
·
1,906 Posts
it was impossible for humanity to use warp travel before the Eldar declined
Not so sure about that, there was a human presence in the galaxy from before the Age of Strife, something I've heard of referred to as the Stellar Exodus. It was also recorded that humans (the "gold men" and "stone men") were about in the galaxy during this time. I think the Gold Men and the Stone Men are roughly analogous to the Golden Age of Humanity and the Dark Age of Technology, but I'm not 100% sure on that. But there was definitely interstellar travel.

Whether or not it was warp-driven, I don't know.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4 Posts
my 2 cents part 2

sorry about my spellin and grammer, my english isnt so good.
During the great crusade the emperor was the leader and he surely decided were the fleets went, caliban was re-discovered duringthat time surely a this time the eye of terror was found, all I'm saying is at this time he could of feasebly attempted to conquer this area.

Also humanity must have had warp travel during the dark age of technology when they colonised the galaxy in the first place, or did they use some other form of moving quickly? maybe lightspeed like in star wars.
 
1 - 20 of 45 Posts
This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Top