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Destroyer of Worlds
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Anyone making changes to deal with them? Do we have any tactics, or dirty tricks to slow down the swarm. I, for one, am scared. Even running a rhino rush list... fielding 10+ rides... I don't think it is going to help.

The Hive Mind is coming, and my girls are nervous.
 

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Anyone making changes to deal with them? Do we have any tactics, or dirty tricks to slow down the swarm.
Template weapons, massed bolter fire, immolators, and repressor tanks (aka mobile bunkers) - pretty much par for the course.

I'm most interested in seeing what the new nids get in terms of inv saves as in the past i've always been able to plink off the big guys with divine guidance and exorcists in a pretty one-sided way (rolls bolter salvo ... counts up 6s ... removes carnifex)
 

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Destroyer of Worlds
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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Template weapons, massed bolter fire, immolators, and repressor tanks (aka mobile bunkers) - pretty much par for the course.
Yeah, repressors aren't allowed in the standard ruleset.. But I am with you, we can't really do anything more than we are already doing.
 

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Aganist the new nids, if they are using that burrow list with or without myctic spores I was going to put my army in reserves and pass first turn to my opponent. Let his forces accumlate on my table edge and deploy on the farthest side away from him or the weakest flank(trying to determine if my forces are strong enough to wipe out the nids without out any close by retailiation) keep my forces back and shield the exorcists while falling back. When they get close I counter assualt and wipe out the survivors.
In general there is no need to rush an assualt list, cause they will come to you and if they don't then you put your army on the weakest flank and pick away with exorcists while shielding them with rhinos and popping smoke on those.

In terms of firepower the nids are only going to be dying faster to our weapons due to eternal warrior not existing anymore.
To count we have ap1 bolters for monsters, flamers for swarms and melta and exorcist for more monster killing and now instant death. I think we will be fine.
 

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Hive Fleet Pandora
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Aganist the new nids, if they are using that burrow list with or without myctic spores I was going to put my army in reserves and pass first turn to my opponent. Let his forces accumlate on my table edge and deploy on the farthest side away from him or the weakest flank(trying to determine if my forces are strong enough to wipe out the nids without out any close by retailiation) keep my forces back and shield the exorcists while falling back. When they get close I counter assualt and wipe out the survivors.
I'm not sure if that is a really good idea. If you're coming from reserves, you'd be fighting them piecemeal but only with a small portion of your force. I'd rather castle up, let them drop piecemeal and then deal with them with the full force of my army. Besides, it'll be extremely annoying if your exorcists don't come in until turns 3-5.

In terms of firepower the nids are only going to be dying faster to our weapons due to eternal warrior not existing anymore.
To count we have ap1 bolters for monsters, flamers for swarms and melta and exorcist for more monster killing and now instant death. I think we will be fine.
Not really. A number of their units (zoanthropes, venomthropes and maybe others) have 3+ Inv saves. Also, venomthropes provide 5+ cover saves within a certain range. If anything, their TMC's have just become more survivable thanks to cover. It's true that they've lost Eternal Warrior, but with the amount of cover they can get, especially if they use cheap gaunts/hormagaunts/gargoyles as screens or the use of Landing Spores (drop pods) means that they'll reach enemy lines faster and more intact. And a lot of tyranid units have multi-wounds (the warriors have 3W a piece!) or T5/T6. While not impossible, it's not as easy to insta-kill them as you'd think. Would your rather fire your exorcists at the warriors w/power weapons, re-rolls to hit & re-rolls to wound that's closing in or the zoanthropes that just dropped down and blew up your other exorcist with 3x S10 AP1 Lance shots or at the Tyrannofex taking 2x S10 pot shots from 48" away or at the Hive Guards pelting your transports with 24" S8 shots or at the Trygon/Mawloc that just popped up from underneath you. Also, their Landing Spores are actually living Monstrous Creatures that can fire at you with S6 rending shots or even barbed stranglers or venom cannons.

To think that the new nids play like the old nids is to really under-estimate them. They are much more dynamic and varied in their playstyle just as much as the new marines, guards and space wolves. However, this time they're better prepared to get you out of your vehicles.
 

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Personally, as a former nids player, I think the new Nids are going to be horribly overpowered. That being said, we will just have to bear through it and hit what we can with what we have. Personally, I think I'll be squeezing my Callidus assassin into my list and taking Grey Knights more often if they have that many invulnerable saves. I need an inquisitor to take an assassin? Even better, I'll take my Ld 10 Infinite range Psychic hood to stop those lance strikes and I can make it a DH Inq so I'll give him a Psycannon and some Mystics while I'm at it. Let that Mawloc Pop out there, I'll shoot my exorcist at it the moment it rears it's ugly head.
 

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I'm not sure if that is a really good idea. If you're coming from reserves, you'd be fighting them piecemeal but only with a small portion of your force. I'd rather castle up, let them drop piecemeal and then deal with them with the full force of my army. Besides, it'll be extremely annoying if your exorcists don't come in until turns 3-5.
Putting your forces would be a better idea than castling because you would be able to fight on your terms, you don't have to engage the nids, if your exorcists dont come in because of bad dice rolls then you can deploy them away from the long range guns of the nids and pop smoke and either use them to bait the spore droppers away from where you want to go or have them go somewhere safe where the rest of your forces will be appearing. Its highly unlikly that the exorcists wont be on the field on turn 2 or 3 anyways. With deep striking scatter its won't be suprising that parts of the army might become seperated from each other and therefor easy to isolate and destroy anyhow. Castling might work, but its more risky because its banking on the fact that you will have a good phase and kill the stuff next to you, cause if you don't, your going to be steamrolled.


Not really. A number of their units (zoanthropes, venomthropes and maybe others) have 3+ Inv saves. Only zoanthropes and maybe warp field users can get this as I recall and for the zoanthropes case being T4 its just like rapid firing a marine that has 2 wounds. Also, venomthropes provide 5+ cover saves within a certain range. If anything, their TMC's have just become more survivable thanks to cover. Not really, good nid players were get 4+ cover saves long before this came out due to gaunt wall in front screening warriors who were screening mosters so pretty much 4+ cover for everyone. I wouldn't be so sure that everyone will be using the venomthorpe because it is toughness 4 and can be instant kill easily, a 5+ cover wont help much aganist 3 or 4 exorcists shots. It's true that they've lost Eternal Warrior, but with the amount of cover they can get, especially if they use cheap gaunts/hormagaunts/gargoyles as screens or the use of Landing Spores (drop pods) means that they'll reach enemy lines faster and more intact. Whats wrong with hormaguants reaching our lines?! I would be happy to have nids run right at my rhinos charge them so I can tank shock them in clumps and lit them up with my flamers. And a lot of tyranid units have multi-wounds (the warriors have 3W a piece!) or T5/T6. Alot of tyranids had multi wounds to begin with,and they can be instant killed now, so actually the previous warriors were better, not inclining that I would waste my fire on them unless I had to. While not impossible, it's not as easy to insta-kill them as you'd think. Would your rather fire your exorcists at the warriors w/power weapons, re-rolls to hit & re-rolls to wound that's closing in or the zoanthropes that just dropped down and blew up your other exorcist with 3x S10 AP1 Lance shots or at the Tyrannofex taking 2x S10 pot shots from 48" away or at the Hive Guards pelting your transports with 24" S8 shots or at the Trygon/Mawloc that just popped up from underneath you. With my tactic I would be able to piece meal this army and avoid being in range of every weapon in the enemy's army, you are assumig that I deploy in the middle of my board edge which only a fool would do. The only thing to fear in terms of range in the tyrannofex, and you won't be seeing to many of those, as I recall you have to have like a trygon kit and a carinfex get in order to have the pieces for both. Another thing, I would screen my exorcists with rhinos so I would be getting a 4+ cover save aganist those pot shots. S10 Ap1 lance, rolls to pen, pentrating hit, rolls cover save, 4, passed, shot is anulled. Also, their Landing Spores are actually living Monstrous Creatures that can fire at you with S6 rending shots or even barbed stranglers or venom cannons. I don't think they will be getting barbs or venom cannons, and look easy kill points.

To think that the new nids play like the old nids is to really under-estimate them. Oh they won't play like the old nids at all, they won't be so limited as they were before. They are much more dynamic and varied in their playstyle just as much as the new marines, guards and space wolves. However, this time they're better prepared to get you out of your vehicles. Yes, but all thats really happened is that they have been brough up to par with 5th and are not going to be as overwhelmings as your making them out to be.
 

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Would your rather fire your exorcists at the warriors w/power weapons, re-rolls to hit & re-rolls to wound that's closing in or the zoanthropes that just dropped down and blew up your other exorcist with 3x S10 AP1 Lance shots or at the Tyrannofex taking 2x S10 pot shots from 48" away or at the Hive Guards pelting your transports with 24" S8 shots or at the Trygon/Mawloc that just popped up from underneath you.
As a serious answer, i'd be tempted to hold off until later in the shooting phase and see if the trygon or any of the melta drop podders ... I mean zoans survived rapid fire.

Assuming not i'd probably target the hive guard and look to keep a bit of cover between my remaining exorcist(s) and the fex until I want to deal with it - shouldn't be a problem at 48". That's what - 800 points of nids there?
 

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Hmm, they're going to be beatable and not that hard if you just play your cards right. I play both nids and sisters. Don't worry about Invulnerable saves so far only the Zoanthrope and the Unique Zoan have them. Rapid fire them without spending faith and they'll die fast enough, maybe a flamer in the unit or a meltagun both will do.
On maths:
10 sisters, w/ 1 meltagun and 1 hf
3 hf hits, 10.67 bolter hits, 0.67 melta hits ->
2hf wounds, 5.33 bolter wounds, 0.33 melta wounds ->
0.67 unsaved hf wounds, 1.78 unsaved bolter wounds, 0.11 melta wounds. About a total of 3 wounds on a 6 wound unit.

Don't worry about the Tyrannofex, it's horribly expensive and you'll rarely ever see one. If you do, be happy less points in nastier stuff. I have to agree with jy2, castle up with vehicles and and get your lanes and cover optimal as you do against any other army.

As far as it goes now Landing Spores can get S6 venom cannons or s4 barbed stranglers or an other out of the 5 or 6 weapons list...

I think the most important thing is to get your priorities straight. While those up close gargoyles might seem like a threat, the hive guard for an example are going to be a bigger pain as the gargoyles can't do anything until you've left your rhino's and the hive guard make you leave you rhinos.

Nid's lost nearly all 2+ saves they had, that's a great advantage to us. No invulnerable save for the HT not even the unreliable 6+.

I think a lot of competitive list will have about 5 to 8 critters with 6 wounds, up to 9 zoans/hive guard, and about 30+ termagants.

You can have 8 critters with 6 wounds, 30 termagant (5 big critters spitting out terma's) and 7 zoan/hiveguard at 1850 points.

That's with the current leaked dex. So take it with salt.
 
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Hive Fleet Pandora
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The new nids are an improvement over the old ones. Not because they're much better, but because they're more capable of handling the 5th ed. meta-game, which is primarily mech. They've also now got the mobility that they once sorely lacked. They will take some getting used to, but overall they present much more of a threat to the Sisters (and any other mech army) than ever before. Think daemons, but with much improved shooting (at least that's what I feel would be their future, competitive build). The sisters are still solid no matter who they go up against, but the new nids will present a challenge that's not so easily solved with even AP1 bolters and multiple exorcist rockets.

Assuming not i'd probably target the hive guard and look to keep a bit of cover between my remaining exorcist(s) and the fex until I want to deal with it - shouldn't be a problem at 48". That's what - 800 points of nids there?
Fexes are out. Trygons/mawlocs and gaunt-factory Tervigons are the new "it" TMC's. Though we can take 1-3 fex per heavy slot, our fexes have really been nerfed. What once cost us only 114pts now costs us about 160pts (though with re-rolls to hit), and we can't even upgrade them with toughness, wound or saves. You'll still see fexes cuz there's still so damn many out there. Alas, my poor 'traditional' nidzilla is no longer viable. Time to build from scratch and get 3 trygons and a whole bunch of zoans.
 

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At least there are no 2+ saves anymore:):(
 

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Hive Fleet Pandora
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Actually, Tyrants can still take it, but they're ridiculously priced and even more expensive than current. Also, I believe tyrannofexes are 2+ (along with T6 W6).
 

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the new nids will present a challenge that's not so easily solved with even AP1 bolters and multiple exorcist rockets.
To be expected with codex creep. The nids need the help though as they suck against mech right now, especially the sister's MC-chewing AP1 mech.


Fexes are out.
'shrug' - so it seems, but it was in your original post and hence in my reply to it.
What (little) i've seen of the heavier nid weapons so far is a lot of AP4 stuff so if the fexes get access to a heavy-plasma like weapon they may find a use.
 

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Hive Fleet Pandora
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Actually, I take it back. Fexes aren't completely out. At least not if you give them drop pods. They drop, you have 1 turn to kill them before they rampage and they can use the pods as cover. Now imagine 3 fexes dropping and 2 Trygons/Mawlocs burrowing from underneath you. It's actually quite scary - 8 TMC's at your doorsteps (remember that the new Landing Spores are actually Monstrous Creatures that can shoot). Of course that's about 1000pts there, but it's still a big threat.
 

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Yes, HT and Tyrannofex can get 2+ but the Tyrannofex is horrible expensive even by my standards (and I love big and expensive stuff) and I don't see people playing 2+ save HT's a lot...

To bad fexes can only buy spore pods if they're alone in the slot:( I wish I was able to buy 3 spore podding fexes, add a little bio-plasma for the short range plasma burst and there comes a lovely 690 point unit trashing your ranks! But as far as the leaking shows it's only one fex if podding:(
 

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Hive Fleet Pandora
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To bad fexes can only buy spore pods if they're alone in the slot:( I wish I was able to buy 3 spore podding fexes, add a little bio-plasma for the short range plasma burst and there comes a lovely 690 point unit trashing your ranks! But as far as the leaking shows it's only one fex if podding:(
Ahhhh....there goes that idea out the door. So 2 trygons, 1 pod fex and a couple of pod zoans it is.
 

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Anyone else think mystics are going to be hella fun against the new nids?
 

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It's been a while since I played nids, and rules are changing anyway so it doesn't matter I guess. But regarding zoanthropes, their shooty power (warp blast I think it was called) is still classified a psychic power. Now I don't know if it has AP3 or not, but even if it did, sisters would still get Shield of Faith against it; granted that would only be a 5+ instead of 3+, but it beats a kick in the ass.
 

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The Warp Blast version is still ap 3 and a psychic power yes so it can be negated by the shield of faith.
 
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