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LO's unofficial Jester
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Played an interesting game today, 2000pts Wood Elves vs. Dark Elves. Interesting because I was completely slaughtered (I had my two level 1 wizards and my Alter Highborn left on the field) but I actually think the game went pretty well.

First off its not as if my opponent had too much left, 1 Hydra two harpies, 15 spear men, 7 Black guard and 12 crossbow men (or to put it another way I killed 1 Hydra 1 Beastmaster Manticore, 13 Blackguard 20 spearmen, 5 spearmen 1level 4 wizard and 1 level 2 wizard) .

Secondly I had some atrocious dice rolls in the game for example on the second turn I failed three panic tests in a row and later on my Treeman hit my opponents Hydra 5 times failed to wound with any of them and then proceeded to fail his Ld test and get run down.

Thirdly despite some bad luck I also made a few mistakes which I think I have learnt from. My Highborn charged my opponents Manticore (and killed it) when really I should have gone for one of his Hydras and let my Wardancers or dryads kill the Manticore. I should have poured a few more shots into the Blackguard and really just finished them off.

On the other hand I also had a few of my tactics confirmed. For example an Alter Kindred with the Spirit Sword is very good at killing Monsters..

What really struck me in this battle if Wood Elves get into a straight fight they will be mushed very easily. Now don’t get me wrong it was not my intention to fight the Dark Elves head on but a number of factors such as rampaging Hydras, and annoying Harpies got in the way and bit by bit I was lured into headlong charges.

I think my ultimate conclusion is when facing Dark Elves take out the damn Hydras. The basic rank and file troops go down easy to bow fire, even at long range but the monsters are simply too fast and too tough to be allowed any leeway.

Also I haven’t been able to come up with an effective Noble Wardancer build, that also takes into account the fact he is the General. I am coming close to simply taking another Alter Kindred Noble.

Finally magic. So far I have settled on 2 level 1 wizards who are pure scroll caddies. It worked very well this battle.

Anyway I thought it might be useful for me and maybe you to put my thoughts about the battle to paper (so to speak).

Any comments on recent battles that might feed into this?


NB: My Army was
1 Alter Highborn
1 Wardancer noble
2 Level 1 Wizards
10 Glade Guard
10 Glade Guard
10 Glade Guard
7 Waywatchers
1 Treeman
8 Dryads
7 Wardancers
8 Wardancers

VS
1 Beastmaster Manticore
2 Hydras
1 Level 4
1 Level 2
20 Black Guard
20 Spearmen
20 Spearmen
12 crossbow men
6 Harpies
6 Harpies

(Rough figures only can’t remember exact model composition of either army!)
 

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I played two different DE opponents, both a pretty long time ago.
The last one was on a tournament, this is that story...

The guy was a skinny beady eyed shrewd tricksy "Dark elf" guy.
He fielded the usual powerhouse deathstars, lord with 1+ save, inverse wardsave and a miscast item (forgot the name), in a unit of pure death.
Also 2 hydras and some other nasty stuff.

But what I didn't count on was him not having any magic! ANY!
yeey for me, apart from my 4 scrolls.

He was dubbing between putting his lord in the Coldone knights or in his deathshat unit, he chose the latter, sadly..
I got first turn and rushed my Bodkin Lord withing shooting range of his Knights, and took aim.

Hail of Doom? he said

No I replied I'm not packing it this time tbh (I lied, I totally did! haha)

Well then you're a sucky WE player he commented.

WELL FCK YOU TO! I thought, and so did my lord

He killed 2 knights, the Knights panicked (within General range!) and fled the board.
How do you like me now!?

The battle was a hard one, and I managed to secure a draw or only a minor loss, I don't remember well.
One thing is for sure, I was the only player able to take out his Hydras the entire tournament.
Thanks to me, he didn't end up winning the whole god damn thing.

He was a shrewd bastard this guy, trying to do all sorts of illegal stuff, and bitching when I called shenanigans.
Seriously, I had the judges over every turn.

Example:

oHoo
T

thats the combat situation I was in, o is rank and file, H is hero, T is my treeman.
I decided to hit his rank and file, wounding for 5.
This is what he said:
Ok well you can only kill one, because the Hero is between them, your treeman can't touch the models and thus can't kill them
JUDGE! I hollered.

But this story is more about the opponent than his army.

I've found they are a pain when played powerhouse.
We need to make sure we evade them, and hit precise and hard. We should try to take out his "vulnerable" important units first (Knights if you have Bodkins), and mages. Simply getting a alter noble to charge one is not good, think assassin. Warhawk riders spring to mind.

Lure them into the woods, do what it takes to avoid his nasty combat units.
In all, play like a Wood Elf.
 

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I know this may have some of you going to take out my Welf playing card and confiscate it... but,

I truelly believe that the New Dark Elf book made Welves vs Delves a pretty much pointless battle.
*Hydras don't care a rats you know what about going in the woods after us;
*Hydras get to move like a skirmisher which will allow them to catch us pretty easily - even more so if two hydras on the field;
*The amount of power dice in their favor vs our is just a little overpowering - heck two lvl 1 dark elf mages can burn through our dispel dice on their own;
*Sure - their crossbows only have a 24 inch range - looks good for us... except they can move/shoot and eventually get close enough to us... and thats not mentioning they have identical fast calv to ours for the most part (more shots, 1 less to hit, in my mind almost evens them out due to a higher armor save) and these things called a repeater bolt thrower "Yep, there goes a Glade Rider unit";
*Shades - damn near as good a unit as our Waywatchers - except they get to hide an assasin so they can get a 1st turn charge out of him and mess up our whole deployment - something we are supposed to do to them.

Now, this doesn't mean we cannot win - we just need dice rolls to go our way more often than not and as Maximus stated "We need to make sure we evade them, and hit precise and hard. We should try to take out his "vulnerable" important units first". This is easier said than done - especially with people new to the Forest. I'm not sure how you guys do your terrain Max, but we use a random terrain generator that works out pretty well - it forces us to play more tournament type terrain battles where Welves must learn to play without a forest to draw people into (as well as Dwarves/Empire learning gun lines are not always on a hill, lol). We must bait and switch every chance - avoid units like the blackguard as they will own us w/ an always strike first banner, this thing called armor (still not sure my Welves know what that is), and stubborn meaning they aren't going anywhere. Hydras... same they will eat us alive. Unkillable lord on a dragon - try killing everything else - same way we beat the Bloodthirster army - avoid him and kill the rest. Its going to be tough fight - like I said, its winnable - but we really need a well balanced army played to its best performance abilities. This last part is very tough for most people who haven't played Welves for a long while to get out of the normal warhammer mindset and avoid combats. They are T3 as well as us... lots of shooting should help this one out.

Good luck brother - avoid hand to hand combat at all costs. On a side note, are you familiar with the WPS system? I personally hate it - but it will stop him from bringing all of those combos as the system does a decent job balancing everything out for a comp/friendly match system. Ends up being pretty nice games overall if you both follow the guidelines in it for building armies.
 

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WPS stands for Warhammer Player Society...
here is the link - just copy paste it into your browser, or i guess you could just click on it :) Last time it was updated was november, so the newest armies may not be updated just yet.

http://atlantis.sverok.net/WPS/RT_WPS_Comp.pdf

Like I said, it ends up having some nice things about it and some dumb things. Dumb things drive me nuts - though once you really look into the dumb things are not that dumb persay and just annoying! But it does make for alot more fun and even games in the long run.
 

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FYI, I've found the best way to kill a Hydra is to hit it in the flank with Wild Riders with the War Banner, and try and get your level four Spellweaver to Irrisistible Force a Beast Cowers spell on it so it doesn't attack.
Heheh, I've actually done this twice, much to dismay of my Dark Elf playing friend.
 

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Here is one of my major wood elf strats:

"Oh NOES! How do i deal with (INSERT NAME OF BEASTIE, DEATH STAR, ECT, ECT)"
DRYADS!

Ive had single units of 8 dryads kill, giants, tomb scorpions, an ENTIRE screaming bell (thats right ALL OF THE guys pushing it to),Hell bit Aboms, Chaos Lords, Plague Bearers with Herald, the list gets long and long. I mean its 96 points. I throw them at whatever im not sure how to handle
 

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King of the Burning Sands
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Here is one of my major wood elf strats:

"Oh NOES! How do i deal with (INSERT NAME OF BEASTIE, DEATH STAR, ECT, ECT)"
DRYADS!

Ive had single units of 8 dryads kill, giants, tomb scorpions, an ENTIRE screaming bell (thats right ALL OF THE guys pushing it to),Hell bit Aboms, Chaos Lords, Plague Bearers with Herald, the list gets long and long. I mean its 96 points. I throw them at whatever im not sure how to handle
Cool... Some of those are pure luck though...hell all of them are really.
 

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Cool... Some of those are pure luck though...hell all of them are really.
True, I've had Dryads bounce off trivial units. Still, they're my unit of choice to tackle a lot of those targets, except a death star. If they can slip a couple of wounds onto a baddie, maybe they can hold it up while reinforcements arrive. Death stars are to be avoided almost all of the time.



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As a dark elf player who plays the major part of his games against wood elves, I must say that just about every army configuration I throw at WE seems to work reasonably well... We have played around 10 battles, and the least I got was a solid victory. Tells the whole thing really.

Most strong units in the WE range have very unfavorable advesaries in the DE range. Take dryads; they are very strong and cheap and has actually killed my hydra TWICE, but a charge from a naked 135p cold one knight unit annihilates them. Every time. Period. And they cant even flee. Wardancers are superb, but hydras kill them rapidly, not to talk about the wonderfull item called "lifetaker". The thing is, if the dryads or wardancers charge, I flee. If I charge them, they cant flee. Now that is a problem for WE! Glade guards are also nice, but chillwind is nicer. Wild Riders are great, but really struggle with shooting (shades) and magic. Waywatchers? Pain in the ass, but a succesful magic missile just killed a 100 points. The lifetaker kills 2 of them per turn.

The treeman is the only unit giving me any considerable problems. ESPECIALLY the whole root attack thing. HodA is also REALLY a menace. If he ever took two treemen and three mages in a 2000p army, I think I could actually be in for a bit of trouble.
 
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