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As the title says, I've got three questions. The first two deal with the Ork Mob Rule. The third has to do with Tank Shock.

1. The rule states that mobs may always choose to substitute the number of Orks in the mob for their normal leadership value. It also says that mobs with 11 or more models counts as fearless. Is this fearlessness optional, as is the rest of the mob rule? What I mean is, in a situation where I'd rather take a leadership test, is that allowed?

2. In a similar vein, does the mob rule count for target priority checks? That seems a little silly.

3. The Tank Shock rule says you must move models out of the way of the tank by the shortest distance. Does this mean that Tank Shocks can force units out of coherency?

Sorry if any of this is obvious or has been answered already. Thanks in advance.

 

[Moglun]

Can't help you with the orks (although I strongly suspect that the answer to #1 is 'no'), but as far as number 3 goes the answer is no. Just reread the second paragraph of tank shock and you'll see it.

 

[Rork]

As the title says, I've got three questions. The first two deal with the Ork Mob Rule. The third has to do with Tank Shock.

1. The rule states that mobs may always choose to substitute the number of Orks in the mob for their normal leadership value. It also says that mobs with 11 or more models counts as fearless. Is this fearlessness optional, as is the rest of the mob rule? What I mean is, in a situation where I'd rather take a leadership test, is that allowed?

No. They're always fearless with 11 or more models present. It doesn't offer you the choice.

2. In a similar vein, does the mob rule count for target priority checks? That seems a little silly.

In so much that you get ld10, yes. Fearless only affects morale and pinning.

 

[Revelations]

1. The rule states that mobs may always choose to substitute the number of Orks in the mob for their normal leadership value. It also says that mobs with 11 or more models counts as fearless. Is this fearlessness optional, as is the rest of the mob rule? What I mean is, in a situation where I'd rather take a leadership test, is that allowed?

I don't see why not. I think the point was that they become affectively fearless as their numbers allow them to automatically pass the LD check. Nothing about fearless makes anything your unit do compulsory unless it states so. Unless I'm missing something, don't have the dex handy. Might be better to ask the specific scenario you're thinking though.

2. In a similar vein, does the mob rule count for target priority checks? That seems a little silly.

Not that I am aware of. You just go with the highest "unmodified" leadership in your mob. Or fearless units could always pass; that would be silly.

3. The Tank Shock rule says you must move models out of the way of the tank by the shortest distance. Does this mean that Tank Shocks can force units out of coherency?

No. The unit may move as it wishes to remain in coherency. AFAIK, nothing can force a unit out of coherency.

 

[Splata]

#1 No. You are fearless. You have no choice bu to take those outnumber hits.

#2 Yes you can use it for priority checks. You are firing enough bullets and with enough people that some will get to the target and even if they don't your in a large mob you can defeat these 'umies in combat! Oh course, maxing out at LD10

#3 The others have said enough

 

[stayscrunchyinmilk]

The unit may move as it wishes to remain in coherency. AFAIK, nothing can force a unit out of coherency.

Not what you're really saying i know, but a vindicate assassain can (shoot the one in the middle who'se maintaining unit coherency. Marines tend to spread out thin vs Leman Russ battle cannons, then they have to move the devastator squad if out of coherency and none shoot. Yaay go sniper! You won't shoot your points back in men in a game, but you can irritate people no-end!)
Give me a S..Shoot! give me a N...NERF! give me a I...Infiltrate give me a P...Pinning give me a E...Exodus pistol! give me a R...AArrgghh!!

P.s. i may just be confusing people now by muddying the waters. sorry. I have been bad.

 

[Hasten]

Give me a S..Shoot! give me a N...NERF! give me a I...Infiltrate give me a P...Pinning give me a E...Exodus pistol! give me a R...AArrgghh!!

P.s. i may just be confusing people now by muddying the waters. sorry. I have been bad.

Hah! Muddy away, the cheer made it worth it .

-H

 

[randomtask]

Hi guys, I made a post over in the Orks army section, but thought I'd clarify here:

A friend and I called GW's direct service line when we ran into a question about this.

The motherbrain declared that Orks do, in fact, counttheir numbers instead of leadership and therefore can exceed 10 as their leadership.

Which is ridiculous (I play Necrons, and this nullifies my Pariah-Flayed Ones-Gaze of Flame combo).

 

[Rork]

The motherbrain declared that Orks do, in fact, counttheir numbers instead of leadership and therefore can exceed 10 as their leadership.

They're sales guys, they know no more than us.

And they need to read BGB pg 12 - "All characteristics are measured on a scale of 1 to 10". At no point does Codex: Orks specifically override that proviso.

So no, you can't have ld11 or 12. That would be silly.

 

[randomtask]

They're sales guys, they know no more than us.

And they need to read BGB pg 12 - "All characteristics are measured on a scale of 1 to 10". At no point does Codex: Orks specifically override that proviso.

So no, you can't have ld11 or 12. That would be silly.

Newer codices can override the BGB.

They don't have ld11 or 12 or 30. They have unit size 30, which is what they substitute for their leadership value.

Read the codex.

 

[Mal]

*Sets Fire to Randomtask*

"Now children, what have we learnt from the burning man?"

Repeating something does not make it fact. Please cite on example of a Codex or Army Book ever breaking the Stat 10 rule? Ever.

*Dowses Randomtask*

One call to Nottingham does not constitute in depth research into a matter of the core of the rule system. Once the mob is over ten, it is fearless. Can not actually have leader ship over ten. I don't mean to be harsh but stating something as fact, with out evidence or support beyond random phone call does nothing to help other peoples knowledge of the hobby.

The above is a humours reply and in no way represent an actual urge for immolation of others, and the writer does concedes he maybe wrong in the matter discussed.
​

 

[tarzen]

As said in the other thread, and quite clearly in the rules, LD and ALL characteristics cap at 10.

Easiest example is a dreadnaughts strength with a DCCW goes form 6 to 10. 6*2=10 as per GW.

 

[randomtask]

*Sets Fire to Randomtask*

"Now children, what have we learnt from the burning man?"

Repeating something does not make it fact. Please cite on example of a Codex or Army Book ever breaking the Stat 10 rule? Ever.

*Dowses Randomtask*

One call to Nottingham does not constitute in depth research into a matter of the core of the rule system. Once the mob is over ten, it is fearless. Can not actually have leader ship over ten. I don't mean to be harsh but stating something as fact, with out evidence or support beyond random phone call does nothing to help other peoples knowledge of the hobby.

The above is a humours reply and in no way represent an actual urge for immolation of others, and the writer does concedes he maybe wrong in the matter discussed.
​

It is fortunate for me that I am an implacable being made of metal beyond mortal ken, and your fire serves merely to quicken the oil in my veinlike tubules.
I am only repeating myself because I fail to see a counter to my statement.

I am not stating that their leadership stat is altered, at all, at any point in the game.

The exact wording of the codex indicates that they use unit size instead of leadership for events like morale checks, AND they have the fearless ability. If you can refute that, rather than repeat "look at page twelve of the BGB," I would be VERY glad to concede, as I play Necrons, and this rule is a GIGANTIC pain in my shiny metal arse.

It seems, from your experience and mine, that this is an overly confusing rule. I don't want it to seem like I'm being a stubborn rulehound trying to get his way. I just want clarity. Ohhh, elusive clarity. D:

 

[tarzen]

Random-let me make this painfully clear-page 12 deals with this. Take a look. Look at the strength of a dread-6, which when doubled from a DCCW becomes 10. Why? the dccw rules say you double it, right? but p 12 says 10 is the max.

There is no confusion in the rule-use the boys number. but all characteristics cap at 10.

I would pos rep you for the above post if all your others weren't so assinying. As it sits now you still hold neutral ground in my eyes, other than failing to read the rules.

 

[Mal]

I'd say your friend is Breaking spirit of the rules. It would make much more sense that it counts as ten for such matter. Fluff wise, imagine the situation, what would happen?

As for your shiny metal hide. Necron meet Mace of Helstrum, Mace meet Necron. I know you are from different systems but smiting is a full time job. *WHAM* St10 D6 wounds.

 

[randomtask]

I'd say your friend is Breaking spirit of the rules. It would make much more sense that it counts as ten for such matter. Fluff wise, imagine the situation, what would happen?

As for your shiny metal hide. Necron meet Mace of Helstrum, Mace meet Necron. I know you are from different systems but smiting is a full time job. *WHAM* St10 D6 wounds.

Yeah, he does that often enough, but I let him, as it makes it easier to beat opponents who DON'T cheese the rules.

Mace of Helstrum, hello! Meet my friends: Phylactery, Phase Shifter and Warscythe. *Slice*

I imagine this situation as a child punching an inflated clown with a weighted bottom.

 

[Wicky]

Interestingly page 12 does indeed urge you to use a scale of 1 to 10 in the characteristics and for the sake of a balanced argument here, the rules themselves go on to break this in regards to the number of attacks that’s possible in the game.

And since Dreadnoughts have been mentioned, look at its Additional Characteristics on page 58 with the armour values. Armour 12 anyone?

But in all fairness to this particular debate a cap of 10 is correct.

Why?

Because the Attacks Characteristics have the allowance in its own entry to be “increased” and the Armour values are an “Additional” Characteristic not found on page 12.

Just thought I would close that loophole before it was examined.

Cheers.

 

[tarzen]

And wicky, to be fair, armour value is not a characteristic=) as per defined on page 12=)

 

[moob]

It is fortunate for me that I am an implacable being made of metal beyond mortal ken, and your fire serves merely to quicken the oil in my veinlike tubules.
I am only repeating myself because I fail to see a counter to my statement.

I am not stating that their leadership stat is altered, at all, at any point in the game.

The exact wording of the codex indicates that they use unit size instead of leadership for events like morale checks, AND they have the fearless ability. If you can refute that, rather than repeat "look at page twelve of the BGB," I would be VERY glad to concede, as I play Necrons, and this rule is a GIGANTIC pain in my shiny metal arse.

It seems, from your experience and mine, that this is an overly confusing rule. I don't want it to seem like I'm being a stubborn rulehound trying to get his way. I just want clarity. Ohhh, elusive clarity. D:

Well, the wording of the BGB states that all characteristics are on a scale of 0 to 10... which means you cannot go over 10 by any means without express written permission. It's true enough that the Ork codex came out after the BGB, so it could trump that with a special rule that says otherwise, but please note that in order to trump the rule, it would need to specifically state "this allows you to go over leadership 10".

The Ork "Mob Rule!" found on page 30 of the codex gives no such allowance. It states they can substitute the number of Orks in the mob for their leadership (so yes, it does indeed change their leadership value). This new leadership has the same constraints: maximum of 10. The only mention that the rule gives for >10 models is that they become fearless. So they don't need to take morale/pinning checks, but still must check at LD10 for other leadership tests (priority, psychic, etc).



It's a very poorly worded rule. A couple of the ork players here try to insist that it allows Orks to go over 10, and frankly, it can often times be easier to just say "whatever" and continue on with the game... but it's not legal by the rules. I'm hoping that GW will release an FAQ stating definitely that you cannot go over 10 (or that you can, either way). I'm not holding my breath, though.

 

[Wicky]

All that any inferred Leadership value over 10 will ever mean is that you don’t use normal Leadership rules.

But I agree, its atrocious wording for a characteristic that has strict limits in a decimal system.