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LO's Shadow Captain
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It's time for me to move on from the realm of Games Workshop and on to a new game. I'm tired of their ridiculous price increases, the attitude in stores, and their newly brought to light issues with IP. A letter to FUMBBL was enough to get me riled up, but a letter to LO was the final straw for me. I no longer support them as a company, and I will be selling every GW model I own (with the exception of one, which I will be painting for Secret Santa) and starting a new game system if I remain in tabletop gaming.

So, I'd like some suggestions. I would like this not to turn into an anti-GW thread, as we have several of those (which, ironically enough, used to annoy me) and I simply want to be given some advice on a new game to turn to.

My first instinct is to turn to Privateer Press, either Warmachine, Hordes or indeed both, but I'm not certain just yet. What other non-GW games are good?

And, if I were to turn away from tabletop wargames, what other games (aside from video gaming, as I just bought MW2 and it's epic!) and hobbies would you all suggest?

Cheers for any thoughts.



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Warmachine is a damn fine game, along with its brother, hordes. WM however is due a due rulebook in January, so that would be a great time to pick it up. I also dont know if you know, but WM and hordes can actualy be played agaist each other.

If your after a skirmish game, Infinity is nice. A very nice Anime style game, with a slightly futuristic element. Heres the site Infinity the Game
 

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There's plenty of fine games out there. Infinity is great as has been already mentioned.

Malifaux is a good one. Along similar steampunk lines with a Wild West alternate reality twist, the game entirely uses a card mechanic to give models orders and use special abilities. You can either use a card deck, or simply adapt from a normal pack of cards.

Alkemy is another game using cards, but dice are just as prevelant. It is however a little pricey, but the models are a unique blend of plastic and resin, very detailed and durable.

Pulp City is another one I'd give a go. Superheroes clashing in the 1980's, what's not to love?

World of Twilight is a unique little fantasy game with evolved, detailed fluff and a complete lack of elves, dwarves and goblins. It's essentially based around sort of bronze age dinosaurs and... well you have to sort of see it to understand what I mean. :p

Warcanto is a game involving Stone Age humans, orcs and the more advanced Dwarfs. I've only briefly played it, but it's a lot of fun with some fantastic minis from Tales of War.

Smog 1888... well, I really shouldn't put it on the list, but it's a 54mm Victorian model range with the boardgame and rules debuting next April. Just in case you want to gear up for a new release. :p

Anima Tactics is a Final Fantasy-esque game where you build a team of very anime inspired characters and go at it. Brilliant model range supports the newly released rulebook.

Helldorado will soon recieve English rules. It may not be everyones cup of tea, being entirely non PC, but it has fantastic models and varied factions. Set up rules are very unique.

And if you want fleet related jollies, Spartan Games Uncharted Seas and its futuristic counterpart Firestorm: Armada (newly released this month) cover your fantasy and sci fi needs. It's quick and fun, and relatively cheap to boot.

I'm sure I've missed a few I've dabbled in. :p

As for other hobbies, I've always done something creative. Unless reading counts. It's easy to get in to.
 

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Haven't played it yet (and probably won't get around to it), but Incursion looks pretty good. Think Space Hulk meets Nazi-based Sci Fi.

Failing that, I can't find the link, but another one that's pretty popular (probably at similar levels to Blood Bowl from what I hear) is Urban War as I recall. It's a skirmish-based cityfight game.

Another very popular game is Flames of War. It's a wargame about WWII in its most literal form. Gameplay's pretty good and the figures are excellent sculpts for their size. And, by helping the NZ economy, you're helping me get a job in the future :p.

The thing is to just look around. Plenty of decent-looking links have been thrown up, and there is a serious plethora of stuff out there, albeit not quite at the same level as GW's stuff. Of course, if you're feeling adventurous, you could just make up your own game.
 

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running
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Warmachine would have to get my vote. I just started playing last weekend and it's been a blast. Individually the models are expensive but the overall cost is a lot lower because you need fewer.

I don't know anything about it, but if I were to drop Warmachine and still wanted to play a wargame I'd probably try Flames of War next.
 

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Resident Mongoose
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You've also got classic Battletech if you want. Lots of bookkeeping, really complicated, but if you want games to have more depth, you might want to look at the quickstart rules.

Heavy Gear is also mildly complicated, but more fast paced. I think it forms a nice bridge between Battletech and 40k. Games are based much more on small unit tactics, and in general there are far fewer models on the table than in most standard-sized 40k matches. Less models, lower cost, company that actually answers questions and listens to their base. Heavy Gear gets my vote, but I just switched myself, so I'm biased.
 

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The Future
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I'd suggest pen-and-paper RPGs if you've a crew of people you can play with regularly. It has several advantages over wargaming:

1) One off purchase of books between the group (even if you do get addicted to expansions, it's not like you need one each)
2) No/few models to lug about
3) It's a lot more story based
4) You can switch to a new system for under £20.
5) Games last as long or as short as you want - you can stop them when is convienient.
 

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I strongly considered/considering taking up Flames of War since I really like history. A friend of a friend has only good things to say about Infinity. There is also a wide range of Historical wargames from Ancient to Napoleonic with a wide range of models. Check out Perry Miniatures

If you switched to Pen and Paper RPG's Rifts is a very cool sci fi universe whith more complicated rules than your standard DnD.

Really enjoying seeing other peoples game suggestions.

cheers
 

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The Future
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If you switched to Pen and Paper RPG's Rifts is a very cool sci fi universe whith more complicated rules than your standard DnD.
*cough*powergame*cough*.

Rifts, in my opinion, is a bloody awful game designed purely to let people be cheesy - the equivalent of an army full of only lash-princes and vindicators.
 

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I know its not exactly abandoning GW, but what about Warhammer Historical stuff. It seems to be he warhammer rules, but without shinny new 'dex syndrome, the encouragement to use other companies miniatures, scenery that is not identikit citadel stuff, a much less corporate looking website, its covered in magazines other then WD. It looks to me more like GW in the eighties and nineties.

It looks like it has some of the same staff, and uses some of GW's good ideas (like Trafalga seems to use some of the old man 'o' war rules) but because its so much less prominent, has almost no IP and makes less money it seems to have less interest from corporate games workshop hasn't received all the hateful attention from management and marketing types.

It almost looks like a place where the decent GW creatives can go and write the sort of stuff they always wanted to before the big corporate hedge funds came along and sold heir soul for space marines supplied riches (like what the perry twins do with their own on the side company).

Kinda' looks like a separate company that still has a soul and i allowed to steal the good bits form GW proper without getting shut down. PLus you'd not have to learn all new rules and could use some of your terrain, just get new minis, like those lovely ones form the perry brothers.

If it wasn't the fact that I love the 40k fluff more than actually playing I'd be tempted, but then again I am a historian...
 

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Good luck with everything. I would do a different game for the same reasons but I have already put money into 40k. I feel it would be a bit to hard to get any interest in any other type of game at game/comic store I go to.*besides magic the gathering or pokemon card games*
 

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I know I've already spammed a ton of recommendations but I'd like to add another three that I think are worth a look.

First off is Grind. Played this during my lunch break and it's a blast. Plus if you're interested in Warmachine it's along the same vein.

I'd also give Ron & Bones a try. It's a boardgame with miniatures where crews of pirates face off against each other. Brilliant figures to paint and convert, though the rules aren't quite perfected into English from Spanish.

In a similar genre is Okko: Era of the Asagari. I believe it's based off a French comic book series that's reasonably well known but I don't have a clue. It comes with cardboard minis, but theres a reasonably priced and highly stylised range of metal miniatures to go along with it.

I still have more to recommend, but I'll calm down in a corner now...
 

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I know how you feel 'Nemesis, I really do, but selling off everything you have in a game you presumably enjoy seems like cutting your nose off to spite your face. There is a soloution though...

Judging from the recent threads, I do as many people are starting to do and have stopped buying anything from GW. I still play Warhammer because I love the game, but I don't get any of it from GW so I don't have to put up with either their more... 'questionable' business practices and attitude, nor do I put any money into their coffers because I buy everything I want either second hand or from other miniatures ranges.

Aside from anything else, this means I save a ton of money.

Now obviously I can't advise you not to buy from Games Workshop (because that would be illegal here in England), but what I can do is tell you the way I thought about it when I started to feel as you do:

You don't need to give up the game, you just need to give up GW.
 

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I also was looking for a new fantasy miniatures game a couple of months ago, after getting sick and tired of GW's (in my view) arrogant attitude. The belief that people will continue buying their products simply because they are GW regardless of the price, irked the crap out of me.

With that being said, I now play Warlord by Reaper. Took about two games to really get the hang of it, because after playing WH Fantasy since '89, I couldn't believe how simple the rules were. I kept standing there in disbelief thinking, "Is it really this simple?". The rulebook has the rules and lists for all the armies inside, making the purchase of $20 worthwhile; just like the old GW WH fantasy battle used to be before army books were invented as a way to siphon more money.

My friends and I all use our WH miniatures for proxies, along with buying a hand full of Reaper minis that look cool. I believe it is safe to say that I am finally finished with feeding the beast that is GW.
 

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Benevolent Dictator
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I would say that if you need a new hobby, any kind of model-building can do well for you. Alongside my regular GW models, I also build model airplanes (more on that later) and also model cars.

If you're looking for new games, there's always Privateer Press, however, I also suggest:

CAV- the aforementioned Battletech game pulled a GW and lost much of it's fanbase through new rulings etc. so, half the group left and started CAV with Reaper Minis. The game is quite intense, and uses standard D6s and a deck of standard cards. If you've seen the anime 'Gundam' the battles are like that- with infantry and tanks in a support role to 5-6 giant mechs.

Flames of War- great game if you're into WW2, but until I can find a good set for the USMC in the Pacific, I'll be avoiding this one. Sorry guys.

Brickwars/Brickmech- sort of a funny concept, but these are legitimate strategy games based around the infamous Lego. They're 3rd-Party rules. Brickmech focuses on fighting robots, and is based on Battletech. You get to build your own mech based on a standard template so that you can swap arms/legs mid battle, and you use a set of guidelines to describe your mech on it's stat-sheet. I have the Lego-Digital-Design program that lets me build models on my computer and have them shipped to my house. I can upload a Warhound Titan if you want, lol.

Canvas Eagles- there is a long list of old flying games, and this is just one of my favorites. Canvas Eagles is interesting because it has a built-in campaign element, and is meant entirely for historical replays of WW1 dogfights, starting with the scout planes of 1916 and working up to the Camels and even a few planes which were designed too late to partake in the war. It is intended for model airplanes and is played at conventions on mammoth tables or the floor. My friends and I simply made some counters and a small playing surface out of laminated poster-board and got into the game for less than $10. The rules are super detailed, and tons of fun as it is actually a 'simultaneous' game. Both players take their turns at the same time.

Warlord- as mishra suggested, this is a great game, and quite easy to learn and proxy in your old fantasy models.

There are tons of Indy games out there, and even games from people who just wanted to try their hand at writing something. I've playtested several games like that, and even written a handful on my own, my most recent project being to essentially boil MW2 into a table-top game. I know that for a long time, MacMoss has supposedly been working on a rulebook which he intends to publish. It's meant to work alongside the 40k models, and is simply called 'Lethal'. I tried it during it's development, when the rules were still on this site, and if he does manage to get it published (doubtful, sorry) it will be a crazy-good game system.

The problem of course is that if you leave GW, you are alienating yourself from that portion of the gaming community. It may not matter to you if you don't leave near an RT or an official shop, but think about how many times you've seen Non-GW games being played, compared to GW games. In my area- it's seldom. I, like Vallah, have stopped making bulk purchases from GW, but I still buy their products from my local RT, just to keep him in business. I haven't switched out yet, and haven't gotten rid of any GW stuff, because I still love to attend local tournaments and play pick-up games against new opponents.
 

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HI folks.
Am I missing something?Why not keep YOUR minatures and simply use them with a different rule set?

Some free to down load rules ,
Stargrunt II, (Ground Zero Games)...sort of like RT era 40k ,but done realy well!(IMO.)

Xenocide Firefight, (Thane Games) has a VERY robust PV allocation formula for provable levels of balance.And lots of fun to play too!

No Limits...what 2nd ed 40k could have been, if it was developed further....

ChainReaction III (Two Hour Wargames..) the fast furious and fun skirmish game !

'freewargamerules' has loads of rule sets free to down load and try.

Give a few a go, find what you like best, and welcome to the wonderful wider table top minature gaming hobby!


Happy gameing,
Lanrak.
 

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Cereal killer
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I'm quite sad that no one has mentioned The secrets of the third Reich yet, so I'll go ahead and do it.

SoTR(short) takes place around 1949 and everything is just like it should be... Just, WWII didn't end and zombies and stuff are running around.
The game comes from Westwind productions and is fairly small though.
It is quite fun if I can take the words from friends of mine as true. I've never played it but am planning to get some Japanese next year.
Not to say that the models are awful either, they're quite nice really. (And cheap! :p )

That is all.

Cheers!
 

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LO Ninja
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Also feeling miffed at the big GW recently. Bought Space Hulk and painted up the first squad of termies to have a game with someone and was promptly told to put it away! Space Hulk aint welcome in GW!! It had a whole god damn WD dedicated to it and now its not alowed in store??? f*&@ ba%[email protected]%^

I've decided not to buy any more 40k but have gone to BFG, BB and hoping to get into Epic and Inquisitor. As has been said, I love 40k (and show WHFB a bit of love time to time, even LotR sometimes ;)) but I'm looking at ebay and the likes for my stuff. No more GW spending sprees!

PL

PS
Can we get this thread stickyed. I like the fact its talking about other things I aint heard of before :)
 

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Also feeling miffed at the big GW recently. Bought Space Hulk and painted up the first squad of termies to have a game with someone and was promptly told to put it away! Space Hulk aint welcome in GW!! It had a whole god damn WD dedicated to it and now its not alowed in store??? f*&@ ba%[email protected]%^
WHAT! That just takes the space biscuit! Its not even like you were playing a non-GW game! If I were you I'd be so mad at that. The ONLY time I'll ever get to play SH is if someone brings a copy into the store to game with, fat chance of that now. I didn't get a copy when it was released due to it being sold in limited numbers AND ridiculously not limited in any way to one per person. Plus there was the prohibitive cost which meant that only now would I have been able to afford it. Space Hulk was a big big error in my view.

Anyway, back on topic, yes please, sticky this thread, a lot of cool suggestions in here.
 
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