Librarium Online Forums banner

Is this a "good army"?

  • Yes

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • No

    Votes: 0 0.0%
Status
Not open for further replies.
1 - 20 of 26 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
78 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
:D Hi fellow forum members, :D

I am recently new to this forum and I was wondering if anyone could help me out by giving me suggestions/tips in using this army that I have. I have played a few games and its about 50/50 sucess rate.
Someone suggested Assault, Assault, Assault, but I'm not too sure (is it a blanced army?).

Any suggestions or help would be very grateully received :roll:

:oops: Imperial Fists Army :oops:

1 Chaplain (HQ) @ 140 Pts
Crozius Arcanum; Plasma Pistol (x1); Rosarius
Jump Pack [20]
Artificer Armour [20]
Terminator Honours [15]

8 Assault Squad (Fast Attack) @ 235 Pts
Bolt Pistol & CCWep. (x6); Plasma P. & CC Wep. (x2); Frag Grenades; Jump
Packs

1 Sergeant @ [25] Pts
Frag Grenades; Jump Packs

4 Terminator Squad (Elites) @ 240 Pts
Power Fist (x4); Storm Bolter (x2); Assault Cannon (x1); Heavy Flamer (x1)

1 Sergeant @ [42] Pts
Power Weapon (x1); Storm Bolter
#Terminator Armour [0]

1 Dreadnought (Elites) @ 138 Pts
Front Armour: 12; Side Armour: 12; Rear Armour: 10; Dread. CC Weapon;
Heavy Flamer; Twin Lascannon
Smoke Launchers [3]

1 The Emperor's Champion @ 105 Pts
Bolt Pistol
#Purity Seals [0]
#Iron Halo [0]
#Master Crafted Weapon [0]
#Black Sword [0]
#Artificer Armour [0]
#Terminator Honours [0]

8 Tactical Squad (Troops) @ 194 Pts
Bolter (x7); Flamer (x1)

1 Sergeant @ [15] Pts
Bolt Pistol & CCWep.

1 Rhino APC @ [53] Pts
Storm Bolter
Smoke Launchers [3]

4 Tactical Squad (Troops) @ 80 Pts
Bolter (x3); Heavy Bolter (x1)

1 Sergeant @ [15] Pts
Bolter

4 Tactical Squad (Troops) @ 81 Pts
Bolter (x3); Plasma Gun (x1)

1 Sergeant @ [15] Pts
Bolter

4 Scout Squad (Troops) @ 65 Pts
Bolt Pistol & CCWep. (x4)

1 Sergeant @ [13] Pts
Bolt Pistol & CCWep.

2 Bike Squad (Fast Attack) @ 115 Pts
Twin Bolter; Bolt Pistol (x1); Meltagun (x1)

1 Sergeant @ [35] Pts
Twin Bolter; Bolt Pistol; Close Combat Weapon

1 Land Speeder (Fast Attack) @ 65 Pts
Multi-Melta (x1)

6 Devastator Squad (Heavy Support) @ 215 Pts
Bolter (x2); Lascannon (x2); Missile Launcher (x2)

1 Sergeant @ [15] Pts
Bolter

1 Whirlwind Battery (Heavy Support) @ 75 Pts
Multirocket Launcher

1 Land Raider (Heavy Support) @ 253 Pts
Linked Lascannon (x2); Twin Heavy Bolters
Smoke Launchers [3]

Models in Army: 55


Total Army Cost: 2001
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,575 Posts
You need more marines and scouts, try to get full squads (or at least all squads at 8 guys strong), or make em 6 strong and get some Razorbacks. Same goes for the bikes, get some more, you might also want to add an attack bike to that unit.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
126 Posts
Good army there. I think it is fairly well rounded. I have to agree with Bornin though. Combine the two 5 man troops into a single tactical squad. I would seriously consider maintaining your tactical squads to 8-10 models.

The scouts... not sure why you have them. If you want a force that can infiltrate and have a wide range of tactical use, beef up their numbers to 8-10 men. Otherwise I would keep their current size and arm them with sniper rifles. As a small sniper force able to harrass and pin a single unit, they will have a more specialized, but useful, role in your army.

As for your tactical marines, I think arming them with flamers and assualt style weapons (melta/plasma gun) over heavy weapons is the way to go. Otherwise you have lost the mobility of your force simply so 1-2 models can fire their weapons in a given turn. You have plenty of anti-tank units to take out the armor. Let your troops be able to move around by dropping the heavy weapons. I would also consider adding a bit more mobility to your troops making sure 2-3 full units each get a rhino.

The land raider is an awesome model. I always wonder about the effectivenes of them given the point costs. Especially as they seem to be round magnets for just about anything that can fire. I am certain that they are used to transport your termies. But given as your termies are not tooled up for CC, maybe you can downgrade to a predator and use the points to get and extra tractical squad (bringing your number up to 3 tactical units total) with some rhinos. I guess you have to judge how effective your landraider has been (it IS an awfully nice model).

I just want to conclude do NOT ignore the size of your units just because of the 'they shall know no fear' rule. Recent clarifications on it have introduced some critical weakpoints with marines (if an enemy is within 6" they will not rally). Having more models mean they can take a few losses before having to make a moral check.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
78 Posts
Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Thx for replies.. my reasons and tactics...

Dear fellow forum users,

Thanks you very very much for your replies about my Imperial Fist army

Let me explain my reasoning on some points you alerted me to....

1)I see one of the key points you made is a larger unit size is better i.e 8+
2)Increase moblility through 2-3 more rhinos, and 5 man strong bikesquad
3)Scout Squad usage
4)Land Raider usage
5) Heavy weapons in tact squads
6) My tactics

1) I have read a very convinving article having two 5 man tact squads instead of one ten man: these are my reasons why...

a)Enemy has to split fire- instead of firing on one 10 man squad, this forces the enemy to split fire which limits their no. of kills (e.g darkreaper squad, can only kill a max of 5)

b)Ordnance hits less models

c)Battle line can cover more ground to capture/cover terriority

d) You can use a small 5 man tact squad to hold an assualting enemy unit in place, and then counter attack ( i use my dread here, also two 5 man squad can sheild a dread better than 1 ten)

e) THEY ARE MORE LIKELY TO FLEE (GOOD THING)- LET ME EXPLAIN
They can always regroup (except when enemy is with 6in)- SPACE MARINES ARE ALL ABOUT using your small numbers to your advantage.If an enemy assaults a 5 man squad , they(5 man squad) are beaten and they flee. The enemy here can either ignore them or pursue. If they ignore, no big deal they just rally. If they pursue they can either (a) be pursuing short, in which case u have an unengaged enemy unit stuck in your battle line :lol: (so a 75 point squad is bait for something else e.g striking scrpions) or either (B) They catch up with them and assault them, (which takes another turn), or if the marines survive to flee again , it would draw the enemy further and further away from the battleline. :lol:
(theres more to this than that, look up on google for this site)

f)An enemy has to kill 8 men from 2 different squads to silence ur heavy weapons, and ur heavy weapons have better LOS if in 2 squads.

2) Increasing mobility: Rhinos are expensive!!! as are bike!!! in points. Please refer to my army tactics below....... for more info

3)Scout usage: a cheap 65 point squad which infiltrates>>a) fights other infiltrators b)assualt an enemies front line to block LOS for units behind it
c) a distraction (in a recent game my opponent sent a whole orgyn squad in a chimera to deal with scouts and although they lots , they held them up for 2 WHOLE TURNS)

4) Land Raider usage: Its only a transport for termies, if i wanted shooting i would definitely have 2 predators and theLand raider model is awesome!

5) Heavy weapons in tact squads: These are dead cheap, they are like versatile fire or not fire weapons that just addd extra fire power i.e 5 points for a heavy bolter. IN tact squads they are also hard to silence cause you usually have to kill everyone then him

6)My tactics: Basically I assault using a refused flank/pincer movement depending on cover and army facing. (Rhino with Emp Champ, marine), (Assault squad with Chaplain) and (Terminator in Land raider) Then all the rest of my amy is either advancing in support, or provding a solid firebase (dev squad, whirlwing), with bikes to act as reserves/hunt tanks and scouts to distract and tie up.

Thats all I had to say, What do you think? :lol: 8O ?
I like your suggestion of more men ( my 2k point army only has 55) but i just dont wanna paint tactical marines as they are a little.....boring

Again thx for replying.... WHat do you think? PLease post replies or
You can contact me on [email protected]
Thx People :p
"I have never made a mistake, just learnt from experience" - Edison
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
278 Posts
Re: Thx for replies.. my reasons and tactics...

Great tactics, the reduced numbers are a good plan. But, HishamEQ has a point, you should downgrade your Land Raider to a Predator, maybe an Anihilatter patern. The extra points will get you a few more sqauds.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
485 Posts
I agree with those of you wanting to drop the Landraider, I almost never use them myself save the 'Crusader'

I would have more models in the devastator squad if I were you, this way the eneny has to score more hits on the squad before any hvy weapons are lost. Try using at least 8 models in the squad and place them on a single line with max distance between the models. Place the hvy weapons on the sides, two on each side to making the hvy weapons harder to get with ordnance.

I also agree with you dorn on the 5 men teams, I use some of the same tactic myself with great success, I give them one meltagun, a lascannon, a vet sgt with meltabombs and stick them all in a rhino/razorback. I usually have two of these units, then I go tank hunting. hehehe...

If you are going to switch out the Landraider I would suggest you get another Devastator Squad as these in my opinion is the real strenght behind a Space Marine force
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
78 Posts
Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Landraider

Dear fellow forum members,

I would like to achknowlege your advice on the landraider
Although I have some queries

1) Removing the landraider, would severly impact on the effectiveness of the terminator squad, as I mostly use it to transort termies into ccw in turn 2. Because my experince with walking termies, is that they tend to die easily even with 5+ inv, and one they loose a few, there impact is reduced significantly.

2) i've already bought the model

3) I have found great use in the landraider, becoming a magnet (an expensive one at that) for heavy weapons. If this goes, i feel concerned
there would be more focus on rhinos, assualt squads, which are really the core of my assault.

Again thanks very much for your suggestions. PLease keep them coming :roll: Any suggetions/comments anyone?

from dorn
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
664 Posts
jeez, u got it together, makes me wonder why you asked for help in the first place :wink:
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4 Posts
BIT RUN OF THE MILL

YOUR ARMYS OK BUT A BIT LACKING IN COMBAT TROOPS TACTICAL SQUADS WITH CHAPLAIN OR EMPORAS CHAMP IN RHINOS WITH POWER WEAPON AND CLOSE COMBAT WEAPONS (IVE GOT 3) REALY KICK KEEP THE LAND RAIDER TO DRAW HEAVY WEAPONS FIRE FROM THE RHINOS
AND HAVE TELEPORT HOMERS IN THE SQUADS SO THAT YOU CAN TELEPORT TERMIES WITH LIGHTNIG CLAWS TO SUPORT YOURE TROOPS IN ASSAULT



ORK STILL RULE AND CAN KILL ANY FING (BUT NIDZ DA BUGZ BEAT ME OH THE SHAME).
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4 Posts
MORE TERMIES MORE LIGHTNING CLAWS LESS HEAVY WEAPONS

5 TERMIES AINT ENOUGH AND DEY MUST BE ASSULT TERMINATORS WIV LIGHTNING OR THUNDER HAMERS COS DEY IS BETER DAN POWER FISTS WHICH SUCK ESPECIALY AGAINST S4 WITH CHOPERS. TELEPORT THE TERMIES IN SO DEY CANT GET SHOT AND USE TELEPORT HOMERS SO DEY DONT SCATER TO THE WRONG PLACE(I USE 20 TERMIES MOSTLY SCROUNGED OFF MY MATES) LIGHTNING CLAWS GIVE THE TERMIES 4 S4 POWER WEPON ATACKS PER TURN


NEX MONTH GET SOME GREY KNIGHTS WITH LOVELY FORCE WEAPONS

HEY HATS AN IDEA HAVE ALIBRARIAN WIT FORCE SWORD RATHER DAN DA CHAPLIN :twisted:
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
126 Posts
Dorn, I just have to disagree on using the smallest possible squad size for your tactical squads. For one point I agree, 3 squads are better at splitting fire and completing objectives than 2 huge ones. But I think a squad size of 5 is very fragile. I field squads of 8, any more and I think the value of the extra marines are redundant for the points you spend.

You might want your troops to run, but a smart player is going to keep them running without displacing his force. If I break you in an assault, you have better roll a 9 or more, otherwise I can be certain your squad will still fall back the next turn and I do not have to follow into another assualt. How? By consolodating my models 3" towards your breaking unit. Next turn your marines will still have to fall back (within 6") and I can do what I want. The more troops you have, the more punishment they can endure, the less likely they will break.

Tactics dictate how you arm your forces. I can understand when you want to give the tactical squads sufficent heavy weapons when you want to avoid excessive CC (Orks, Nids). But as your units have no means to get around on the battlefield with Rhinos, I still disagree on maintaining the heavy weapons in those units. All of the mobility from moving and shooting is lost so that one or two models can fire. I think assault-type heavy weapons are the way to go. Again especially as you have plenty of other heavy units that can take out armor.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,770 Posts
I still disagree on maintaining the heavy weapons in those units. All of the mobility from moving and shooting is lost so that one or two models can fire.
Have to agree with hishamEQ on that point, mobility is very important against sertain armies.

5 TERMIES AINT ENOUGH AND DEY MUST BE ASSULT TERMINATORS WIV LIGHTNING OR THUNDER HAMERS COS DEY IS BETER DAN POWER FISTS WHICH SUCK ESPECIALY AGAINST S4 WITH CHOPERS. TELEPORT THE TERMIES IN SO DEY CANT GET SHOT AND USE TELEPORT HOMERS SO DEY DONT SCATER TO THE WRONG PLACE(I USE 20 TERMIES MOSTLY SCROUNGED OFF MY MATES) LIGHTNING CLAWS GIVE THE TERMIES 4 S4 POWER WEPON ATACKS PER TURN
Got to agree on the terminators weapons too.... but 20!?

Eztrovia!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
78 Posts
Discussion Starter · #14 ·
Terminators, Tact squad usage, Squad size, anniahilator...

:lol: Dear fellow forum members, :lol:

I would once again like to thank all of the the people who replied for their enthusiastic comments.
I would like to achnowlege some of the suggestions, and add some of my own opinions.

1) Terminators- :twisted:
Someone suggested changing Terminator squad weapons from power fists to lightning claws. I use my terminators, to take out enemy tough stuff in hth, like nobz in mega armour, tyranid warriors, cariflexes, wraithlords,orgyns ...etc. I have found that powerfists along with the 5+in save has been a very sucessful tactic in my army. My experience with lightning claws, is that although it looks really cool, and it intially seems so much better, powerfists stastically through mathematics have a higher sucess rate against T4 or higher, even with lightning claw rerolls. Lightning claws are only good, if you use them on T3 or slightly higher. If u use terminators against T3 troops, then it is a huge waste of 250 points, in what a 10 man assault squad can do better. Termies in land raiders tankhunting also is very fun, during about turn 5 of a battle.
WHat do you think??? :roll:

2) Anninailaotors-
THey seem a little expensive for one lucky hit that could destroy it. I believe that devastaor squads, are although a bit more expensive, they are much harder to get rid of and offer wider LOS to fire.
What do you think?? :roll:

3) Tactical squad usage-
I admit I am not very good at using tact squads. I have 1 ten man squad in a rhino with an emperors champ, which usually can hold its own, in an assualt. I have another 2 five man squads forming as shields form my dread, and act as "bait" for a dread counter assualt. These two squads can advance, but I usually leave them staionary to act as fire support base/anchor flank
WHAT else can I do with tact squads? any ideas/tactics greatly appreciated :lol:

4)Squad Size-
I would like to achnowlege the comment made about 5 man squads, and i now realise that an enemy only has to consoilidate 3inches to stop a squad from regrouping. However, I would question whther I should take away 2 marines from the 10 man tact squad in rhino and put them in the 2 five man squads so they become 6man?
ANy IDEAS? :?: :idea: :arrow:

Thats all for now. Please reply to my feed back.. it has been really useful, again I thank you 8)
I will try to post a bttle report soon, with this army, for you to look at too...

In the mean time...Bye for now :wink:
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
506 Posts
Good army list and obviously well thought through.

I agree with dropinhg the landraider. I think you could use the points to bost up your squads. However though if you assured to keep the landraider I think the best way to use it is as a diversionary tool. Because either way it's going to attract fire, like a corpse attracts fly's. I think useing more points with boosting up the number of models in your squads would be a good idea. But i do agree with spllitting your fire. But the squads size is a little lacking. Pherhaps if points are getting a little chossy you could pherhaps take marines from your rhino tactical squad. But I think your army has been personally assessed by yourself very well. The only sure way to test your army is to put them to battle! Happy gamining!!!
 

·
DING
Joined
·
1,740 Posts
I am with you on the landraider front Dorn. The way you are using it is the best but maybe the whole tank killer package is costing you too many points. Those units would need to mow throw two fairly hard units or so to make a profit. Me i am a big fan of snipers but i dont like the models at the moment so i would take at least one squad. Its amazingly handy to have an enemy squad sitting in front of your lines unable to do anything.
But thats only my opinion! :)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
581 Posts
What about beefing up the termies a bit, say and 8 man squad or so, giving the scouts a teleport homer, and teleporting the termies in on the opposite flank as your main assault. Termies can do pretty well, if used right, all on their own as long as their squad is big enough. If you wanted to be really nasty you could keep the termi squad in the land raider and drop a second, larger termi squad in via the teleporter. Also, if you throw some teleport homers in with your tac squads and your main assault goes south you can drop an 8 main termi squad in to turn things around. Since you won't be deploying them until the third or so turn, your opponent will have already committed his troops, and I think that just would give you a huge flexibility advantage.

I agree with you that overall regular termies w/ power fists are best. Lightning claws can be good against certain types of troops, but for what you're doing I'd say standard termies are best. Also, you're completely right about not wanting to walk them. If you're going to be assaulting with them, walking them is bad.

I have to agree on the idea of more rhinos/other forms of mobility. I don't know, the army just sort of has a "jack of all trades, master of none" feel to it. The Land Raider is still bugging me, but it sounds like you're keeping it (if I was in your position I would be too!), so...I would actually consider mounting the other tac squads in Rhinos or Razorbacks, possibly dropping the Devastators (can you tell I play Blood Angels...? :twisted: ), and using the teleporting termies in addition to the Land Raider (as in on opposite sides of the table, so your opponent is squeezed). I understand the idea of your 5 man tac squads, but, well, I just couldn't bring myself to treat marines so sacrificially, it just doesn't seem in character. Also, since you're playing with marines, frankly you don't want to be going backwards! Your lines are going to be thing, even thinner since you've got a firebase which will probably necessitate some spreading out of the force, and well, if your line breaks, it's broken. You just don't have the numbers to be throwing squads away, or for that matter even letting one fall back a turn or two. Every squad that is falling back is a squad that isn't killing the other guy. Just my personal opinion.

On the idea of heavy weapons in tac squads, I think it depends on squad size. If you have an 8+ man squad, I would say throw in a missile launcher, just in case. If you don't use it, it's just one bolter shot lost, and if your squad needs to stand and shoot at some point, you'll be happy you've got it. That way more of your squads have a basic anti-tank ability in case your heavies get knocked out. Also it just looks the most appropriate to me for a tac squad, given its lighter look. If, however, you go with smaller squads, I would say drop the heavy weapons. When you're dropping 1 out of 10 bolter shots, that's acceptable, but 1 out of 5...? That's not so great.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
16 Posts
Tactical squads

Hello

About five man tactical squads, the only usage I see for them is as a cheep anti tank unit ( five man with las cannon). I'm a big fan of ten man tactical squads. My 600pts force has three of them :D If you have larger squads they can be used as the allround squads they are. In my "assault" tactical squads I have heavy bolters (in addition toassault weapons), there so cheep (five points it's nothing). This means that when they have taken an objective the can hold it and still shoot. It could also be used if you are beeing sweeped by an enemy unit


Captian Octavius
Ultramarines Second company
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
78 Posts
Discussion Starter · #19 ·
Landraider, Rhinos/razor, Dreadnought, squadsize..

:lol: Dear Fellow forum users :lol:

Thank you once again for spending some time and helping me out. I hope I can do the same for you some day... :oops:

Anyway here's my 2 pence worth of what some of the members have suggested.

1) Land Raider- :wink:
I agree 85% of the time that I should get rid of the Land Raider ( u see I bought my army all at once, in a Games Workshop Sale, so I had 33% off everything :lol: ). And replace it for more troops/scouts etc... But I already bought the model, and I am trying to make the best out of the situation. I use it purely to transport termies (someone suggested 2 squads, I believe they are already expensive enough!!) into battle and two thing s could happen. a) it get destroyed in turn 1/ 2 the termies get out and use the huge wreck as cover to advance. B) it gets targeteted by every S8 or higher weapon by the enemy but still makes it and is used by the termies as a bus, assault, kill, consolidate back in. ITs about a 50/50 sucess rate at the moment. Is there anyother ways to use it? ANY SUGGESTIONS WELCOME, By the way how do teleport homers work? :lol: :lol: :p

2) Squadsize- :oops:
Thanks for everyone for their suggestions. I have been convinced by you to increase my (2) 5 man squads to (1) 10 man. AS sacrificiing squads is not in the character of a space marine Peer pressure does work :p :lol:

3) Rhino- :twisted:
I agree that mobile armies are good, however if I have Rhino's for both my other squads, this would be at least 106 points more (i always have smoke launchers). IN a flexible army, e.g when verusing a more assault based army such as tyranids, spending 100+ points is not really going to help you much when your going to stay there and wait for them to come.
I really hate razorbacks a) ugly new model B) Expensive in points for at least 75 points you get a 11,11,10 vehicle that is much more likely going to attract attention than a rhino. Also I believe that half transport, half bad fire support isnt really worth it. DOES ANYONE LIKE RAZORBACKS? :roll:

4) Dreadnought- :x
I am thinking about changing its powerfist for a missile launcher, so it has that and a twin lascannon. Anyone think this is any good? How do you use/kill dreads? 8O

Again thanks a lot fellow forum members, PLease keep you comments coming, they are much appreciated....don't forget to vote :wink:

Bye for Now.....
dorn
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
581 Posts
On the Rhinos, one could easily argue that using the Rhinos gives you the flexibility to go where you want to and pick your battles. That way against, say, Tyranids, you can stay mobile avoiding the big nasty's charges and instead making your own charges.

I think you're using you Land Raider basically exactly the way it's supposed to be used. It is a line breaker, pure and simple. You're using it to break lines and transport termies. It's expensive, and I would seriously consider a 2nd termie squad (I know they're expensive, but if you're going to make the investment, make it fully, not half hearted), but overall I'd say it is fine, and it looks cool, which is way more important than anything else (especially with the termies charging out of it).

On the Razorback, I personally think that the Razorback is a worthwhile vehicle, but it is not a tank. Let me say this again, not a tank. It is really an Infantry Fighting Vehicle (if you're familiar with the U.S. Army think M2/M3 Bradley). Most of the stuff I've seen about it has indicated that it is designed to operate in conjunction with Predators and Rhinos in a combined assault. The Predators spear-head, taking the fire, then the Razorbacks and Rhinos come in to drop their troops with the Razorbacks protecting the Rhinos from anything that gets passed the Predators and then supporting the infantry. If you try to use it like a Rhino or a Predator it won't work. Honestly if you don't like it, just spend the points on something else.

Given what you use your Dread for, I'm not sure I would be willing to sacrifice its close combat weapon. It sounds like you use it in a heavy assault role, in which case I think the close combat weapon could be a crucial piece of kit for, doing things like taking on other dreadnought and so forth. If anything, I might consider a second dreadnought with a lascannon and missile launcher and give your 1st one a multi-melta or assault cannon and a close combat weapon.

Good luck.
 
1 - 20 of 26 Posts
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top