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I’m looking to make a small army that can be easily transported around and has a good amount of conversion possibly.

After seeing a Tau army with a large Farsight unit of doom butcher 3 armies at a local competitive tourney. I’ve decided that maybe the best choice.

I’ve already come up for a conversion for an elite ‘commando’ Battlesuit. I’m also considering converting each one to a certain profession based on wargear: Comms = Positioning Array, Demo = Failsafe Device, Medic = Stims Injector and Heavy = Atrium Armour. Since the original unit I saw used the wound allocation rules to its advantage this would be fun to convert without ruining the army’s competitiveness?

However I'm looking for tips and advice on making a 1500pt semi-competitive, Battlesuit based Farsight army list?
 

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The deep down truth
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I’m looking to make a small army that can be easily transported around and has a good amount of conversion possibly.

After seeing a Tau army with a large Farsight unit of doom butcher 3 armies at a local competitive tourney. I’ve decided that maybe the best choice.

I’ve already come up for a conversion for an elite ‘commando’ Battlesuit. I’m also considering converting each one to a certain profession based on wargear: Comms = Positioning Array, Demo = Failsafe Device, Medic = Stims Injector and Heavy = Atrium Armour. Since the original unit I saw used the wound allocation rules to its advantage this would be fun to convert without ruining the army’s competitiveness?

However I'm looking for tips and advice on making a 1500pt semi-competitive, Battlesuit based Farsight army list?
First thing is lose the iridium armour, it means the model can only move D6 in the assault phase and the whole unit will be limited to this movement rate (units always move at the rate of the slowest model). Battlesuits rely on the full 6" assault move to survive, it is absolutely vital that you have such an expensive and valuable unit able to utilise anything that aids its survival. Lose the 'Heavy'

Another tip is do not go for the full Farsight unit of doom (as you call it, usually it is called the Farsight bomb. Taking Farsight and three or four bodyguards is the best balance. Whenever I have played a Farsight bomb unit the way I beat it is to shut it down with cheap assault units and if you have all the offensive power in that unit it hurts when they cannot shoot because the unit is in CC.

The best person to ask about the list is Eiglepulper as he does use a Farsight list. I am sure he will comment but if he doesn't PM him.

I personally do not find the Farsight lists competitive because of the simple fact you cannot take more than one Hammerhead or Kroot. Kroot are probably the single most important component of a competitive list. I have the Farsight model and have dabbled exstensively but found it wanting.
It is entirely possible to build a battlesuit heavy non farsight list and that is the route I would go.
 

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I am a free man!
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Listen to riki here. Farsight armies really aren't very good, competitively. They can beat up inexperienced players and weak, mostly foot armies ... and that's it. Any halfway decent Marine or IG build (for example) will just tear a Farsight army up, almost no matter how good you are as the general of said army.

Farsight will probably kick butt when the codex is redone. But until then, leave him on the shelf.
 

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The ORIGINAL Sniper Puss
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Played two games recently with a Farsight Enclave (henceforth FSE) against Space Wolves and Sisters of Battle. Space Wolf player has been playing for years, is a great tactician and is usually my nemesis. The Sisters player is also a long-term player with similar abilities. My FSE razed both armies to the ground. Former was 1500pts but can't recall the scenario, latter was 1750pt Seize Ground .

Ok, boasting bit done :p However, the most effective unit on the pitch was the Farsight Deathbomb. It was configured with 3 Bodyguards for the smaller game and 4 for the larger one.

Weapons/wargear load-out for each Bodyguard was Plasma Rifle, Fusion Blaster, Targetting Array, HW Multitracker, HW Drone Controller and 2 Shield Drones each. NO Target locks of any kind save Farsight's own.

The rest of the 1500pt army had:
two 12-man FW squads with 'Ui in DFs (taking SMS on the DFs, and I know Riki will tell me off for that!),
3 individual XV8 Team Leaders using Firestorm+ (MP, BC, TA, HWMT) and taking a single Shield Drone,
Hammerhead with Ion Cannon against Sisters
Single BASS T-Leader with Shield Drone and Marker Drone. (The MD was probably a mistake)

For the 1750pts list, I added:
6-man FW team with 'Ui with ML
Ion Cannon switched out for Railgun
Extra Bodyguard, identical load-out as the others.

Ok, on to the play methods.

For both games, I held the Deathbomb in reserve. The rest of the army could stay at arm's length using the range of the weapons to snipe away at whatever took my fancy. The 3 Firestorms used their JSJ and the MP to be able to target things up to 42" away while the BASS and Hammerhead were used to snuff out transports and/or big nasties. With everything able to shift around quite readily, it was relatively straightforward to keep things at arm's length for Turn One on a 4x4 board. This in turn forced the enemy to come towards me (bar the heavy support units).

The theory behind this ploy was to open up a gap for the Deathbomb's Deep Strike arrival. Bearing in mind that the weapons on the suits all required a maximum of 12" proximity in order to throw down the most effective rate of firepower, this meant that some element of risk was forced upon the Deep Strike. I guess I got lucky with the scatter in the battle against the Space Wolves. scattering only 3" away off target. However, when seeing the arrow on the scatterdice pointing directly towards a table edge which is about 9" away, one's heart arrives in one's throat!

In the battle against the Sisters, the scatter was of greater distance (8"), but still left me within rapid fire range.

Between the two games, the Farsight Deathbomb was personally responsible for the destruction by shooting of two complete Long Fang squads, a complete (tactical? can't remember the proper title) unit of Sisters and 70% of a purgation unit. It also was responsible for the destruction of an entire 15-man Blood Claws unit thanks to a couple of plasma shots from Farsight himself before the unit assaulted the Claws and watched Farsight lay waste to a further 8 Blood Claws over two rounds of combat. In the Sisters game, the Deathbomb also dispatched a full squad of 10 Sisters, again partly through firepower but chiefly through the Dawn Blade. Its own losses incurred were 1 Bodyguard and 5 Shield Drones against the Space Wolves, with Farsight taking a wound too, and against the Sisters the unit lost only 4 Shield Drones. (Technically it also lost a Bodyguard to a Death or Glory attack, but this was a tongue-in-cheek attack; I had already wiped the boards with the Sisters and their remaining Rhino decided to Tank Shock for a laugh. I was egged on to do the DoG attack, which of course I promptly screwed up! Darn you, extra armour, reducing a Crew Stunned to Crew Shaken :sinister: )

Moving on:

Reasons for these successes: lucky dice for one! but also through the number of Shield Drones, the "you ain't got no armour save against this lot" weaponry allied to boosted Ballistic Skill from the Targetting arrays (the FSE had one Markerlight in the SW game - which was for the Broadside's use - and two in the Sisters game, both of which were ineffective). The Deep Strike arrival was the main reason for the success though; great care was taken with the choice of arrival point to prevent too much retaliatory firepower or potential assault in the opponent's next turn. Choice of target was also of premium importance to help protect the rest of the army, so allying these two elements was how I was able to deal so much hurt to both armies.

However, I can't take the all the credit for knowing how to equip the Deathbomb. One of LO's members, Psybomb, has been doing a bit of a study on this type of army and it was from his play-testing results that the Helios+ configuration emerged as probably the optimal set-up for the Deathbomb. Yes, it means that to get the most out of the unit, the unit has to be in the enemy's face. However, that "face" can be found in the enemy's back yard, thus forcing a second front onto the opponent.

The OP also mentioned about making the members of the Deathbomb all different in order to spread out the wounds. This was another thing which I used to do with the full-sized Deathbomb - kit maybe three of the models out the same way (Fireknife+), then have a Twin-linked Fusion Blaster guy for "that opportunistic shot at the tank which will always materialise within half range" (NOT!), a couple of Deathrain+ and finally a Heatwave with the Failsafe Detonator. Everyone of course had the obligatory 2 Shield Drones.

The unit worked out around 976pts. Crazy. Plus it was impossible to keep out of LOS. Plus such a huge target draws attention to itself, so everything fires at it with everything including the kitchen sink.

Also, using different types of weapons throughout the unit tends to dilute the efficacy of the whole. With a Heatwave present, I was having to get seriously close to the target in order to benefit from the twin flamers. By that stage I was more likely to be heading for combat rather than a barbecue, so the Heatwave never got used. Nor did the Failsafe Detonator. So that model was a complete waste of space.

Having Deathrains with TLMPs and TAs but not taking HW Target Locks meant that I was wasting the long range of these weapons. The Fireknives were fine in that they had the Plasma Rifles for rapid fire, but again the range of the MP was being neutered.

So the MPs were more suited to medium-range fire support rather than being stuck in what would usually end up being a combat unit - or more accurately a unit with nasty firepower and a combat capability. Taking those MPs out and putting them into their own unit(s) made much more sense.

The huge Deathbomb unit of 8 XV8s is really only worth considering for an Apocalypse game. Yes, of course it can be used in a 1500pt game, but you're talking serious overkill as well as a humongous detriment to the number of points remaining available to purchase other things for your list! Psybomb's estimation of having maybe 3 or 4 Bodyguards is much more sensible, and using the Deathbomb as a surgical instrument with high-strength/low AP weaponry has really shown me what this smaller unit is capable of. As Riki said, how to shut down a Deathbomb is to embroil it in a long-lasting combat in order to negate its firepower ability. The secret therefore is to avoid this by staying away from the dangerous assaulty stuff as best you can and deal death and destruction to the less dangerous units. By doing this you will be forcing a choice on your opponent: keep going forward towards the enemy lines, or turn round and deal with the pain in the backside who has just arrived in your backfield. The pain in the backside though is wielding a rather nasty power weapon and he knows how to use it!

I'm using a 2k FSE tomorrow against (probably) Marneus Calgar. This will be a real test; I know the player and I know his army from having seen it on the table (and playing against it once with a Shadowsun list). We shall see how things go.

Sorry for the large amount of gushing. I hope it's been of some use.

E.
 
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The deep down truth
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However, I can't take the all the credit for knowing how to equip the Deathbomb. One of LO's members, Psybomb, has been doing a bit of a study on this type of army and it was from his play-testing results that the Helios+ configuration emerged as probably the optimal set-up for the Deathbomb. Yes, it means that to get the most out of the unit, the unit has to be in the enemy's face. However, that "face" can be found in the enemy's back yard, thus forcing a second front onto the opponent.
One of LO's members Hmmmm,:\:mad-tongue:;);) I seem to remember recommending this build quite a while ago as illustrated here.

Rikimaru said:
If you are going to take a Farsight minibomb unit then it should be optimised to kill anything and everything/ Farsight is decent in CC and can be relied upon to finish units in CC. That is normal units, any unit with above average CC abilities or power/PF weapons will crucify the unit.
To my mind the O'Shovah unit should be geared to take down tough targets and the best way to do this is to take 3 bodyguards with Plasma, Fusion, TA, HW multi, HW DC, two with Shield Drones each and one with Gun Drones

This will give you this set up:

O'Shovah with BS5 Plasma
Bodyguard one with Plasma, Fusion, TA, HW multi, HW DC and 2 Shield Drones
Bodyguard two with Plasma, Fusion, TA, HW multi, HW DC, two Shield Drones and Stims
Bodyguard three Plasma, Fusion, TA, HW multi, HW DC and two Gun Drones

24" 3 BS5 Plasma shots
12" 6 BS5 Plasma shots, 3 BS5 Fusion shots and two pinning pulse carbine shots

All the models are different which extends the survivability and the four SD's soak up low AP shots. The Gun Drones offer pinning chances (do not dismiss this) and one BG has feel no pain.

Farsight is there to handle any assaults and he can also take down most vehicles or things like Dreads in CC. The unit can handle any target including AV14 armour.
The unit does not have missile pods because these should be taken in Deathrain units were they perform best. This unit is for taking the fight to the enemy and hurting it. There is very little this unit will leave standing.
To my mind O'Shovah is a hands on type of Tau and he would be the one who would be out there dealing the pain out to the Termies or Plague marines etc.
The unit is ten strong with 3+ armour saves in the majority and with O'Shovah's leadership and free Bonding knives the unit will not run far.
This is the unit I would take in a Farsight list but it is a focused unit and is not meant to hit at long range, it is a pure in yer face hard unit killing machine and it will do the job. Not cheap but effective.
The only thing you have to watch with these kinds of uber units is getting them caught up in assaults with large, cheap assault units as these will tie the unit up and prevent it from shooting. If this happens you have spent a lot of points for naught.
Run a Drone squad near them to intercept any assault units.
 

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One of LO's members Hmmmm,:\:mad-tongue:;);) I seem to remember recommending this build quite a while ago as illustrated here.

Only after I recommended it here

I think the best way to use farsight is with a bodyguard of all Helios suits and I had this idea an hour before Rikimaru!
As you can see by the quote I had the idea an hour before you did Riki! :sinister:

Dave
 
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Hm... I was thinking...

4 Helios (Fusion Blaster, Plasma Rifle, Targeting Array, Hardwired Mulititrackers, 2 Shield Drones each)
To go along side Firesight. What say you?
 

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The ORIGINAL Sniper Puss
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Ok, so at least three of LO's members have suggested this configuration of Helios+ being the ideal Bodyguard set-up. now there's a fourth member recommending it - me.

And the 2k Farsight vs Ultramarines featuring Sicarius on Saturday there ended up in a win for the Tau, holding 2 objectives to the Marines' nil.

Killjaqular:
That's the build we've been advocating. It certainly seems to kick some serious butt.

E.
 

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The deep down truth
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Hahaha, I see that now E.
Would you happen to know how many points 4 Helios with 2 Shield Drones be?
Question: Do you have a codex?

Answer: No, well get one

Answer: yes, well read it and add up the points

Not being facetious here, seriously if you have the codex then work it out, because that is the only way to get used to costing and if you don't have one then get one because you cannot play or build a list without it.

Cost = Helios with Fusion, plasma, Targeting array, HW Multi tracker, HW Drone controller and two Shield Drones = 112pts

That is what I would take, the TA is vital for the accuracy and the Multi is a must have.
 

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*Bows

Thank you, good Riki...

Pssst... I do have one. I just suffer from 4+ hours of homework per class at AI. And sense I'm full time, that's 5 classes, I kind of focus on school a bit more. Your turn to do the math, well again. :D
 

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This is perfect! A friend of mine has been wanting to do a FSE for a while. This is going to help him out a ton!!!
 

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I've been working on the farsight-mini-deepstriking-bomb-o-death* (I have officially trademarked that whole slogan as my own, even though it doesn't often deepstrike...but you can all use it as you see fit).

At 1500 pts, I have found that the optimal crisis suit layout is exactly as E and Riki have suggested, with 3 Helios+s each with 2 shield drones. (As example, at 1500 pts, I run Farsight w/3 Helios+, 2 Deathrains, 1 Fireknife+ w/SD, 1 Firestorm+ w/SD, 2 units of Firewarriors w/Shas'ui, a Railhead and a XV-88 w/2 SD).

E's inclusion of 3 Firestorm+s make a lot of sense to me. I usually have a tough time with producing the shear firepower necessary in 5th to effectively take down units (outside of the farsight-mini-deepstriking-bomb-o-death*). The inclusion of the BCs might help my list a bit in firepower production.

Also, I totally think that Riki is onto something with the slight variation of each bodyguard to take advantage of the would allocation rules. I played around with having 3 different suit layouts, which didn't work well at all. With the helios+ boduguards, I've been trying to subtley differentiate between the suits (like nob bikerz in a ork army). Interestingly enough however, I can't seem to make this work that well (well, at least as well as with my nob bikerz). The addition of the feel-no-pain stim injector is very nice to have in the unit on one suit, and the addition of a Hard-Wired Target Lock on one of the helios+ is the basic way I've found the break the unit into 4 distinct suits. I would never drop any shield drones, as I have found them to be invaluable given the size (footprint) of the unit.

Happy hunting!
 
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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
The 1750pt Farsight list I saw in action in a small tourney featured the full bodyguard unit 7X FB, TA, MP, HWMT & 2 SD. He also mixed things up for wound allocation and included 2 marker drones and most of the experimental wargear: postioning array, stim-injector and failsafe device both of which he used well.

He'd only deploy Farsight's unit and put the rest in reserve using the postioning array to bring them on turn by turn...
2nd Turn: Hammerhead with Burst Cannons and Railgun.
3rd Turn: 3 Battlesuits: BC, MP, MT & 2 SD.
4th Turn: 3 Battlesuits: BC, MP, MT & 2 SD.
Then on the 5th he brought on 4 6 Man Fire Warriors to grab objectives.

As expected he opponents though close combat units at the monster, 1st round 3 Deamon Princes, 1 gunned down before combat and surprising he was the one who charged and made quite an impact.

He's 2nd opponent through a grey knight unit at him but thanks to the failsafe device they were able to get away and were able to get caught in combat again. His 3rd opponent couldn't catch them at all after he immoblised both Land Raiders.

Normally I would never invest so much pts into one unit like this guys did (1000pts!) but man is a hard unit.

This is the sort of setup I'm thinking of using for my army, but can it work at 1500pts?
 

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I think if you make a list using the full-blown bodyguard at 1500 pts, you'll immediately see what the issues are (at least for my mind). At 1750, it's a very all-your-eggs-in-one-basket type thing, but at 1500, it gets to the point of lunacy.

That being said, it can work, but I think it's very situational. When I played my 7-crisis bodyguard list, the footprint was just too huge to hide effectively, and to top it off I was playing against the new guard who could outshoot me at range. The addition of the missile pods on each crisis is a nice way to add range to the unit without sacrificing (much) firepower.

However, it will probably do OK against elite armies, and not so well against hordes. I can't imagine trying to run a list like that against a green tide @ 1500, or even a well played Tyranid list (I'm pretty sure Riki can talk about this better than I can).

Post a list up in the Tau List Forum for us to review and debate about.
 

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As a hardcore farsight fan, I can give you some pointers aswell.

the bodyguard detailed in the thread is also the exact same as i'm running the unit.
Although I did have to figure this load-out out for myself :soldier:

The Tau are an army that rely on synergy so not only the farsight squad is important, he needs support.

At 2k points, the above squad will be 1/4th of your points.

What I find works best in my list:

2 deathrain teams of 2 each.
Perfect for hampering mobility of the enemy or taking out heavy weapons.
Troops are a bit of a nuisance.
We can only take firewarriors and we know how they perform.
I tried taking these in cheap devilfishes with a multitracker.
This worked kind off.
But the tank is still viewed as a transport, has only a moderate threat range(18") and not THAT much firepower.
The drones are a nice addition though.

So I take 2 scoring warfishes for 180ptns each.
Another firewarrior squad of 6 and they use the warfish from the pathfinders.

Here we have 3 light gunships that can devastate medium units. MEQ or GEQ doesn't really matter. just saturate the enemy.
And an enemy that sees 3 tanks moving 12" up the flank is going to react. no doubt about it.

the heavy support is quite diverse.
Hammerhead, skyray and 3broadsides with shield drones.
skyray for reliable ML support. since we can't use 2pathfinder squads, this is our (imho) only alternative. mor resilient then the stealth marker steam, more reliable and less points!
Broadsides are for tank popping (duh:terror:)
Fast attack will see a pathfinder squad and a piranha.
The piranha will run with farsight.
Block unwanted units, drop drones for escort and jazzhands at the land raiders.

The point is that you have 4 major threat groups here.
Short range: Farsight
Medium range: 3 warfishes
Long range: Broadsides, hammerhead

The rest are for our defense or support.

Let me know if it works for you.
Glad to see some people like Farsight also
 
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