To Mortar, or not to mortar?

4080 Views 59 Replies 39 Participants Last post by Marrius, Aug 21, 2007

CowboyAdam512

Discussion Starter · Feb 7, 2006

I was thinking in investing in 2 mortar squads and was wondering if it would be worth it or not?
I wish to draw from anyone who has any experiance/good advice.
Thanx

1 - 20 of 60 Posts

fallenone45

· #2 · Feb 7, 2006

No, no, NO. BAD BAD BAD. I may seem like i am exagerating but IMHO, mortars are a very large waste of points. With the strenght of a bolter and worse ap, it has little chance of killing anything. That being said, most players, unless very lazy, will space their units out so mortars have no effect. I personally have had bad experiences with mortars. however if you play low LD armies alot (ork, tau) than mortars might be a useful asset.
Just my 2 cents.

steel_legion

· #3 · Feb 7, 2006

Call Me Crazy

Call me Crazy but for my valhallans I used 6 mortars (2 squads) They either score big or do nothing so its really a gamble with them. The deciding factor for me is terran, how much is there on the table, if theres a lot then I use then becasue they dont need LOS to fire, and cause pinning (this can slow down that annoying genestealer squad) but on open terran they are just good pick'ns for well everything.

Diggums Hammer

· #4 · Feb 7, 2006

I always like to have one for my command squad to keep out LOS, but just one Mortar.

Gorbass

· #5 · Feb 7, 2006

Against orks and gaunts I'd use them, since they ignore their armour save, but the mortar really suffers when faced with MEQ armies, but then again, orks and gaunts want to come to you, so a heavy bolter is probably a safer bet.

I once toyed with making a Light Artillery army, 30 mortars in the Heavy section (3x3 + 1 from the command squad), 6 mortars in the troops section (3 per minimum platoon) and finally 7 from the HQ, (2x3 and 1 from the command squad).

You could squeeze in additional mortarts with more platoons, and with hardened veterans, but the points would be scarce, what I've listed above is somewhere in the neighbourhood of 1500pts, probably a bit more, but it would be worth it to see the look on your opponents face when you place 43 small blast templates on the table...

I never did get around to building that army... its a shame really.

HavenDan

· #6 · Feb 7, 2006

morters with some basalisk support would work wonders, even marines got to fail those saves sometimes :yes:

Abraham Lincoln

· #7 · Feb 7, 2006

This topic has come up a lot, and the answers are always mixed. Some people say mortars suck, some people say they are amazing, etc. I think that the real answer is that the Imperial Guard armory is a very diverse and useful toolbox, but you have to make sure you take the right tools for the job. If you're going up against MEQ's, who usually just negate half of the rules of the game (by being fearless, big saves, wwb, and all kinds of other lame special rules) then mortars probably won't have the s and ap to do the job. But if you're fighting orks, nids, or other horde armies that rely on troops with light armor and low ld then moratrs are good.
I really like mortars, probably because I play against orks a lot and I get to see them shine. If you're more likely to play MEQ's (like most people) then you should probably get something else.

^Heavy Support^

· #8 · Feb 7, 2006

Gorbass said:
Against orks and gaunts I'd use them, since they ignore their armour save, but the mortar really suffers when faced with MEQ armies, but then again, orks and gaunts want to come to you, so a heavy bolter is probably a safer bet.

I once toyed with making a Light Artillery army, 30 mortars in the Heavy section (3x3 + 1 from the command squad), 6 mortars in the troops section (3 per minimum platoon) and finally 7 from the HQ, (2x3 and 1 from the command squad).

You could squeeze in additional mortarts with more platoons, and with hardened veterans, but the points would be scarce, what I've listed above is somewhere in the neighbourhood of 1500pts, probably a bit more, but it would be worth it to see the look on your opponents face when you place 43 small blast templates on the table...

I never did get around to building that army... its a shame really.

Interesting concept I suppose, but that would have to be one of the least competitive armies ever. If you came upon any sort of 2+, 3+, or 4+ save you would be utterly destroyed. Not to mention the fact that that army would be more like 2000 points- the mortars from the heavy section and the command section alone are well over 1000 points- and that doesn't include the costs of any command squads, line squads etc.- that's JUST the mortar squads. You also should pray that they didn't take any rhinos, chimeras, dreadnoughts, or any other vehicle or walker of AV11 or higher, because they would just shrug off mortars with absolutely no effect. Good luck taking down hive tyrants and carnifexes.

This topic always comes up, but like Lincoln said- unless you are playing orks or maybe tyranids (in which case they are just OK, a heavy bolter would still be better) leave the mortars at home. The don't do ANYTHING to just about any other army. Seriously, there is a reason why you will not see mortars in any tournament army- THEY ARE NOT COMPETITIVE. At str.4 ap6 that is not a heavy weapon- that's barely a long range storm bolter. As a matter of fact, storm bolters will kill more than a mortar 90% of the time- given that the enemy does not generously clump all of his guys together intentionally.

Pinning hardly ever works in 40k nowadays- seriously. Every army has so many rules that give them good leadership, it's tough to find an army with anything lower than leadership9. IG have senior officers with the 12" leadership rule or vox casters, orks have the size check which makes them totally impervious as long as they have more than 12 guys, necrons come with base ld. 10, tyranids all seem to have ld. 10 as long as your opponent isn't stupid, and many armies are just vanilla flavored immune to pinning like death guard- you can't pin them, ever.

Also, don't forget that when you put your mortars behind cover, that takes away targets for your enemy, so whatever forces you have that are NOT behind cover get hit harder. If you put a mortar in a line squad and park that behind cover, the rest of the squad does nothing whilst your one puny mortar fires. If you're wasting that many lasgun and special weapon shots, you're just giving your opponent a holiday.

The moral of the story is to just go with heavy bolters- you'll get more hits, you'll wound easier, it has ap4 instead of ap6, and you can do damage to things like rhinos and killa kans.

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bonekrusher

· #9 · Feb 7, 2006

I always like to have one for my command squad to keep out LOS, but just one Mortar

I have to agree with diggums here.
Mortar do work well against hordes and light armor but also against tau especially against those sealth suits and cris suits because they usually get within 36 of my baslisk so can not shoot them and I hate that they jump out shoot you then jump back behind terrain in assualt phase. Mortars solve that problem.
bonekrusher

Ubernyaw

· #10 · Feb 7, 2006

I usually use my HSO as a counter assault element, so I don't even give him the mortar, just a retinue of guardsmen with meltas or plasmas, and a commissar.

It's pretty much been said that orks don't like mortars b/c of the pinning, but at most you'll be killing 1 ork per turn with intelligent spacing on your opponent's part. 1 dead ork still means there's probably 19 more in the mob that makes them immune to pinning. The ability to lob from cover is nice, but basilisks can do that as well (if you use them in pairs like I do you can hit anywhere on the board with at least 1 ordinance blast per tunr), and in my mind do it much better. The only thing mortars really could ever have going is that they would be at the absolute bottom of any targeting priority list, so if you've got some clever plan for them, chances are your enemy aren't going to stop you.

It's really a shame they're not more useful, because mortars are such a cool weapon, but there isn't much we can do about that, now is there? (If only mortars could fire a krak grenade, s6 ap4 or some such, then I'd be taking them a bit more regularly)

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Nubblet

· #11 · Jun 19, 2007

i find mortars useful to be honest, everyone hates them but they've done me great service, they've taken a good amount of troops and once a piranha

Fusilero

· #12 · Jun 19, 2007

I like Mortars..but that's just me.

RocketRollRebel

· #13 · Jun 20, 2007

fallenone45 said:
No, no, NO. BAD BAD BAD. I may seem like i am exagerating but IMHO, mortars are a very large waste of points. With the strenght of a bolter and worse ap, it has little chance of killing anything. That being said, most players, unless very lazy, will space their units out so mortars have no effect. I personally have had bad experiences with mortars. however if you play low LD armies alot (ork, tau) than mortars might be a useful asset.
Just my 2 cents.

Ah! But i've found them to be extra effective at killing marines who are moving through cover. They pack in nice and close in order to move through it quicker.:yes:

Certs

· #14 · Jun 20, 2007

honestly i didn't care enough to read anyone elses response, maybe partially because i can't focus tonight to read but whatever, drinking does that

mortars are great. you put them in your command squad, two since i do one heroic with standard as my main and a infantry one w/ honorifica. simply if for no else because they are out of sight, you target them at two dif units or maybe ever the same if the first one fails if for no other reason to pin them or at least teach the other player why he's an idiot to mass since he most likely not ig in close order drill. i mean really, who does that, especially with the whole casualties can be taken from any models within range and sight and not just the closest, you might as well tell the opponent you gave them AIDS. what was i talking about anyways/?

Cadaver Junkie

· #15 · Jun 20, 2007 (Edited)

I feel that mortars work well in conjuction with other heavy weapons - your heavy bolters force the enemy to bunch up behind terrain out of LOS, and thus they become ripe pickings for your mortars.

However, I do not believe that mortar support squads are worth it, generally I would only advise taking mortars in, say, LD boosting officer's squads.

Two mortars in two officer's squads are a lot cheaper, twice as likely to actually hit (the problem with a barrage weapon is that if the first shot misses, the rest probably will also), and you can cause twice as many pinning tests. Much more effective.

Thats not to say mortar squads are useless - thats plainly not true. Just not as effective as equal amounts of scattered single mortars.

Chow

· #16 · Jun 20, 2007

I find mortars are useful only when they are together as mortar squard, a single mortar is useless that do little.

I find mortars are good agianst Tau and other imperial guards

I wont suggest mortar for a general list, since for the same point cost you can get a heavybolter squard with sharpshooter, which generally do much more damage.

Mortars are useful for hunt down units that likes to hide itself and pin them down, they are crisis suits/stealth suit, enemy IG's command squard/rough riders and the new elder harliqins.

Mortar are good against harliqins because you dont need line of sight, instead of roll 2d6 x 2 to see them, you can just bomb them with indirect fire, and they got only T3 with 5+ save.

Cadaver Junkie

· #17 · Jun 20, 2007

I wont suggest mortar for a general list, since for the same point cost you can get a heavybolter squard with sharpshooter, which generally do much more damage.

Actually, the heavy bolter squad with sharpshooters will cost a little bit more than a mortar squad (hint, a 3 heavy bolter support squad will cost the SAME as a mortar support squad, so if you add sharpshooters....)

Just being picky, I guess.

Mortars are useful for hunt down units that likes to hide itself and pin them down, they are crisis suits/stealth suit, enemy IG's command squard/rough riders and the new elder harliqins.

Mortar are good against harliqins because you dont need line of sight, instead of roll 2d6 x 2 to see them, you can just bomb them with indirect fire, and they got only T3 with 5+ save.

This is all very true, however!

Chow

· #18 · Jun 20, 2007

Really? I do that just from memory, but isnt that 40 base + 3x10 for HBs and 10 for SS?
while Mortar is just 80 point whole package?

Certs

· #19 · Jun 20, 2007

look, just put mortar tgeams in your ld command squads only, everyone else just smile at the superiority of ig over all other races and leave it at that. cheersa

Cadaver Junkie

· #20 · Jun 20, 2007

Really? I do that just from memory, but isnt that 40 base + 3x10 for HBs and 10 for SS?
while Mortar is just 80 point whole package?

First, you shoudn't post point values. But thats ok - these are mostly incorrect anyway!

I'm pretty sure that the base value is slightly lower than that which you have stated. Also, you should remember that all heavy weapons except lascannons cost more than usual when placed in support squads - this will change your end result just a little.

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