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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I'm considering starting a marine army, I want something unique so was considering taking one of the traitor legions and creating some fluff as to why they are not traitors (ie: a battle group of thousand sons that stayed true to the Emperor, escaped annihilation, and went into hiding...) I realize that in the end fluff is up to me, but how does such a concept jive with 40k fluff as it stands?
 

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God's nutcase
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It's generally accepted as not being possible. While there were a group of marines from the traitor legions who remained loyal and fled Istaan V to warn the Emperor of Horus' treachery, such things were far from common. Having another group of such survivors would be dquite a stretch. Not to mention that there's no account of what happened to Captain Garro and co. after their flight to Terra (although bear in mind that I haven't readThe Flight of the Eisenstein, so I'm not entirely clued up on what the BL has to say on the issue).

As far as a chapter existing from traitor geneseed, I consider it very unlikely that such marines would continue on as their original legion without much censure from both within and without. Think about it: your chapter, your brothers, rebelled against your father and your race, wanting to wipe it out. Wouldn't you want to disassociate yourself from them as much as possible? And so it's likely that any trace of the origin of the chapter would be destroyed out of shame, leaving no noticeable lineage. It's also likely that they'd take up a permanent penitent crusade to try to make amends for their brethren's misdeeds.

It's also likely that various other Imperial organisations would be very much opposed to things related to the Traitor Legions wandering around free. The Ecclesiarchy would brand such things heretical, and there would be nearly permanet (and possibly terminal) Inquisitorial nosing around with them, at least from some quarters. According to some schools of thought there would also be problems from the Mechanicus; it's likely that they would misunderstand the exact nature of the geneseed and consider the heretical flaw to be bound within the geneseed itself, like the Black Rage is for the Blood Angels. And so again, certain factions within the AdMech would be very opposed to the whole idea.

If you're looking for a unique chapter, my advice is pick an archetype/theme, and extrapolate with it. Ask questions about doctrine and history and relate your answers back to the central theme.

And, as freaky as it may sound, make them an Ultramarines successor. Although fluffwise the most common choice for successor chapters, hardly anyone uses them for that.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
this is pretty much what I expected to hear. I just thought it would be nifty to paint up a bunch of thousand sons (for instance), and play them as a loyal legion. other fluff ideas suggested to me were a battle barg lost in the warp finally escaping. of course many of the arguments you mentioned above would still apply to this.
 

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One Awesome Dude
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I thought there were some Egyptian thematic elements on them before this? A lot of Pre-Heresy pictures have large red and gold headdresses. Anyway....

You could go the Blood Raven route, a new loyalist chapter that's beginnings are shrouded in secrecy - but truthfully they use the same, or similar geneseed as an old Traitor Legion.
 

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Formerly BrotherAzriel
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Iv heard this idea once or twice before, the best idea is as mentiond, a chapter set durin the heresy, just before going down.

And again, Ultramarines work exelent for sucsessors, you can go anywhere with them as they are just, well, vanilla, there such variation between ultramarine sucsessors, take mortificators for example, my own Angles of Glory are Ultarmarine sucsessors.
 

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I'm afraid the idea of 'My chapter are loyalists with Traitor Geneseed' is not very unique at all.. a quick search would no doubt find many such threads. It is now a bit like a tired cliché..

That said, if done well it can be worth it. A good fluffy background is what is important.

Why do you want them to be thousand sons?

If it is the Egyptian stuff, why not have an Ultramarine successor that is from a desert planet where a lot of the local population lives in an ancient Egyptian style and the Chapter has taken many of their rituals and beliefs?

If it is the shiny blue armour, then paint them similar to Thousand Sons and call them Successor Chapter #853

And so on..
 

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And also, you do realise that they only got those Egyptian-style hats post-Rhubric?
Much of the Egyptian-style already existed in the legion pre-heresy, yet the "Egyptian-style hats" were introduced more widespread during the heresy, aswell as their new colours, when the Thousands Sons sided with horus after the destruction of Prospero

And myself I think it is fully legit and fluffy to have a part of the once loyal legion get trapped in the warp, or even the eye of terror, to finally get out to the material universe 10.000 years later still being loyalist. Time in the warp works differently, and as such the 10.000 years were maybe as brief as a month realtime for them.
 

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God's nutcase
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Time in the warp works differently, and as such the 10.000 years were maybe as brief as a month realtime for them.
True. But how long would such a force last? As I said, the only real way for them to exist as an entity of that sort would be in a short blaze of glory as they get shot down by all sides. Which is kinda brief and not exactly that interesting a fluff concept.
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
to be honest,yes it was the egyptian look of the models. however, the sons of horus were also a chapter of interest...although I would have a much harder time justifying a loyalsist sons of horus army.

the "stuck in the warp" idea does have its value, although I agree that those in charge would likeley not want to take the risk and order them exterminated (and if they did anything other than just kneel and be killed, than they really would be traitor [catch 22]).

in contrast I could go with the "ultra marine successor" but then I loose a the connetion to the heresy which would just add so much depth to my chapter if I can figure out how to include it in a reasonable way.
 

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God's nutcase
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in contrast I could go with the "ultramarine successor" but then I loose a the connetion to the heresy which would just add so much depth to my chapter if I can figure out how to include it in a reasonable way.
There are other routes to "depth" to a chapter other than the Heresy, and in a much less clichéd fashion. If you're looking for involvement in big Imperial events, write in a section on the Age of Apostasy or the Badab War, although much of the latter is set in stone. Were they with Vandire and now on a penitent crusade? Against him fervently and now have very close ties with the Adepta Soritas and the Ordo Hereticus? There's more to Imperial history than just the Heresy, in short.

Or if you're looking for more character development, as I've said before, pick a theme and run with it, see where your imagination takes you. Take a theme and the Index Astartes article format and get writing. I'm trying my best not to blow my own trumpet here (and failing), but have a look at the Dark Hands chapter background I wrote in my sig. I started off with "I want a chapter that is both drug-enhanced and like Germanic barbarians", saw the one piece of official fluff for the Dark Hands (the extermination of Hrud warrens on Chincare (sp?)) and came up with the rest as I wrote the article. Give something like that a go and see what happens.

And, as always, feel free to bounce ideas around with us on this thread.
 
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