Usually the codices restrict the size of the squad to a certain number before allowing you to buy a transport with it. For example: "A XXXX squad with x models or less may select a YYYY transport." Off the top of my head, I can't think of any exception.
transport questions
i gots one that sounds really dumb but we can't seem to find an answer for.
situation: a squad is bought at max size then they buy a transport but it can't fit in it
problem: the 40k rule book only ses if the squad is too big then it can't ride BUT it dosn't say the transport can't be bought!
see the delema i need to put an end to this once and for all but need proof!, does anyone have an eratta or faq or know of a referance that we've overlooked cus quite frankly i'm sick of facing armies that are mechanized without actually being mechanized.
situation: a squad is bought at max size then they buy a transport but it can't fit in it
problem: the 40k rule book only ses if the squad is too big then it can't ride BUT it dosn't say the transport can't be bought!
see the delema i need to put an end to this once and for all but need proof!, does anyone have an eratta or faq or know of a referance that we've overlooked cus quite frankly i'm sick of facing armies that are mechanized without actually being mechanized.
1 - 16 of 16 Posts
Like Ostol said, transports usually say a squad with x number of models or less may purchase y transport. I can't find any exception to this in any of the codices that I have to hand (space marines, chaos marines and witch hunters).
Perhaps if you could tell us the specific unit and transport you're trying to do this with we can give you a more definitive answer.
Perhaps if you could tell us the specific unit and transport you're trying to do this with we can give you a more definitive answer.
Imperial Guard is an exception for this.
The transport entry states that "The squad may be mounted in a chimera transport for XX..." Not an issue for most squads that are able to take a transport, as the maximum size for these squads is less then the capacisity of the trasnport. The exception however is the Ogrins, where it is possible to by a squad that is larger then will fit in a transport.
Exception 2:
Space wolfs
A maximum sized squad of grey hunters can purchase a razor back, which they can't fit into. Wording is the same as the above. I'd be willing to bet that this same exception will show up in both the blood angles, and dark angles codecies as well, so i'm not going to bother checking.
Thats the two exceptions that I can find at the moment. I'll update this post as i find more.
The transport entry states that "The squad may be mounted in a chimera transport for XX..." Not an issue for most squads that are able to take a transport, as the maximum size for these squads is less then the capacisity of the trasnport. The exception however is the Ogrins, where it is possible to by a squad that is larger then will fit in a transport.
Exception 2:
Space wolfs
A maximum sized squad of grey hunters can purchase a razor back, which they can't fit into. Wording is the same as the above. I'd be willing to bet that this same exception will show up in both the blood angles, and dark angles codecies as well, so i'm not going to bother checking.
Thats the two exceptions that I can find at the moment. I'll update this post as i find more.
What Squad/ vehicle are you asking about in particular?Plague_00 said:i gots one that sounds really dumb but we can't seem to find an answer for.
situation: a squad is bought at max size then they buy a transport but it can't fit in it
problem: the 40k rule book only ses if the squad is too big then it can't ride BUT it dosn't say the transport can't be bought!
see the delema i need to put an end to this once and for all but need proof!, does anyone have an eratta or faq or know of a referance that we've overlooked cus quite frankly i'm sick of facing armies that are mechanized without actually being mechanized.
In the SM codex it specifically says squad size and transport option thus putting a limit on it. I would also think that if a codex says a squad may be "mounted" in a transport, then they may not purchase the vehicle unless they fit inside it. (otherwise they would not be mounted)
presumably a GW mistakeDaedelus said:The exception however is the Ogrins, where it is possible to by a squad that is larger then will fit in a transport.
well, a razorback can be bought alone as a heavy troop choise, so it is legal to have some without being able to take troops inside (like immolators, land raiders...)Daedelus said:Space wolfs
A maximum sized squad of grey hunters can purchase a razor back, which they can't fit into. Wording is the same as the above. I'd be willing to bet that this same exception will show up in both the blood angles, and dark angles codecies as well, so i'm not going to bother checking.
But for rhinos, chimeras and the like, i don't think it is legal to feild one without a "fitting" squad.
Plague mate, as ostol and others have said, the disclaimer is generally in the codex, in the army list section in the paragraphs on transport.
If you pick up your favourite WH codex, look at the celestians, squad size is 4-9 plus sister superior, so 5-10, look down, it should say under transport, if the squad numbers 6 or less it can use an immolator for XX points, and then a generl rider saying the squad can buy a rhino.
In traditional manner, as people have pointed out, occasionally this gets ommited, in which case it is technically legal but not really in the spirit.
Are you trying to do this yourself or trying to stop someone else doing it?
If you pick up your favourite WH codex, look at the celestians, squad size is 4-9 plus sister superior, so 5-10, look down, it should say under transport, if the squad numbers 6 or less it can use an immolator for XX points, and then a generl rider saying the squad can buy a rhino.
In traditional manner, as people have pointed out, occasionally this gets ommited, in which case it is technically legal but not really in the spirit.
Are you trying to do this yourself or trying to stop someone else doing it?
i'm trying to stop it , mechanised marines are bad enough but i keep running into these kind of people, atm there is 1 space wolf, 1 dark angel and 2 orks doing it and it has to stop i mean really there is no way to counter these kind of armies cus if we tool up on anti-tank we get mowed down by massed infintry and vice versa.
I don't see how enforcing this will prevent them from fielding multiple transports as they can rearrange their unit sizes to still allow it. I personally think the reason they put in the disclaimer is to prevent arguments that more troops can fit in the transport. People would argue that because the codex allows a Rhino option for an 11-man squad then they all could fit even though a Rhino could only carry 10. There is no rule that requires a unit with a transport to ever embark in it throurh the entire game. So I don't see a reason why one couldn't be bought for a unit which is larger than could fit. Sure they can't embark until they take a few casualties because of the rule preventing partial squads from embarking, but I don't see any other problem with it.Plague_00 said:i'm trying to stop it , mechanised marines are bad enough but i keep running into these kind of people, atm there is 1 space wolf, 1 dark angel and 2 orks doing it and it has to stop i mean really there is no way to counter these kind of armies cus if we tool up on anti-tank we get mowed down by massed infintry and vice versa.
Creampuff does bring up an interesting point.LordCreampuff said:I don't see how enforcing this will prevent them from fielding multiple transports as they can rearrange their unit sizes to still allow it. I personally think the reason they put in the disclaimer is to prevent arguments that more troops can fit in the transport. People would argue that because the codex allows a Rhino option for an 11-man squad then they all could fit even though a Rhino could only carry 10. There is no rule that requires a unit with a transport to ever embark in it throurh the entire game. So I don't see a reason why one couldn't be bought for a unit which is larger than could fit. Sure they can't embark until they take a few casualties because of the rule preventing partial squads from embarking, but I don't see any other problem with it.
There are certain units which say things MUST be mounted in a tranport unit (Dominion squads for example). Of course, they cannot be mounted into something which does not fit everyone.
However, there doesn't seem to be a definite precedent (because of a few exceptions) that state that the entire squad MUST fit in a transport vehicle if it's OPTIONAL. I do agree that this is in line with the spirit of the game, esp because of the idea of dedicated transports (if they weren't dedicated I would say there'd be no problems). Still, there may be times where you don't want the units to be in the transport right away and you think you may take casualties.
And as Creampuff said, sometimes (and esp in 3rd edition this was the case) you bought transports not really for transporting but just as a platform for more heavy weapons *cough* Razorbacks *cough*.
Or to create interviening terrain *cough* Raiders and rhinos *cough*Laplace said:And as Creampuff said, sometimes (and esp in 3rd edition this was the case) you bought transports not really for transporting but just as a platform for more heavy weapons *cough* Razorbacks *cough*.
Either for mobile firepower or mobile terrain, taking a transport or infantry fighting vehicle solely as a supporting unit shouldn't be prevented.
Throughout history infantry transports were typically under-armored (as is the Rhino and Razorback) to be effective troop protection units. Until the M2 Bradley came along troops would typically ride on the outside of the transport to be able to get off it when it came under fire. Riding inside an M113 APC was typically a death trap (they weren't nicknamed "flaming coffins" for nothing) once the shooting started. Even the Bradley would typically deploy its troops before the fighting started and provides close-range supporting fire to its unit.
So taking an IFV as a support choice for a squad seems like a great idea to me.
Throughout history infantry transports were typically under-armored (as is the Rhino and Razorback) to be effective troop protection units. Until the M2 Bradley came along troops would typically ride on the outside of the transport to be able to get off it when it came under fire. Riding inside an M113 APC was typically a death trap (they weren't nicknamed "flaming coffins" for nothing) once the shooting started. Even the Bradley would typically deploy its troops before the fighting started and provides close-range supporting fire to its unit.
So taking an IFV as a support choice for a squad seems like a great idea to me.
Look at what goes on in Iraq today. Troops travel in Humvees which for the most part have been modified by men in the field to offer some additional protection against IEDs and other roadside bombs. This relates directly to 40k. The Rhino, much like the Humvee, has crap armor that does little to protect the troops inside from anything more than small arms fire. So, in the field they add extra armor to help. A friend of mine was in Iraq for over 1yr with a National Guard unit doing vehicle maintainance. They dig through scrap piles looking for bits of steel that they can weld onto the under-armored humvees. Sometimes they just pile sandbags inside vehicles to offer protection against mines, etc. Rhinos do suck, but they are very realistic as transports. You could mount all your troops in a Land Raider and have them well protected, but that is expensive both in points and $$$. The military could easily do the same today with an heavily armored tranport, but just like in 40k men are cheaper than machines. It all comes down to battlefield economics in 40k and in real life.
soo what the general oppinion is it's legal AND justified
I don't see any evidence in the BBB or in any of the codexes that I have (SM, BT, IG, WH, CSM) that allow a squad to buy a transport if the squad size is over the capacity of the transport in question. Someone brought up Ogryns, but it states in their entry that they take up 2 seats in a transport, so only 6 can fix in a Chimera. There is nothing wrong with buying a transport and not using it for transporting the squad, although only that squad can ride in it.
If you have a codex that is not overidden by a more recent publication then yes, you are not breaking the rules by buying a transport for a unit that is too large to fit inside it. If you have a newer codex then you are limited to purchase a transport only if you meet the requirements indicated in the codex. But buying transports as vehicular shields or infantry fighting vehicles and never using them to transport the squad they were bought for is perfectly legal.Plague_00 said:soo what the general oppinion is it's legal AND justified
1 - 16 of 16 Posts
- This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Librarium Online Forums
A forum community dedicated to Wargamers, Wargaming 40K enthusiasts. Come join the discussion about Warhammer and Wargaming collections, miniatures, tactics, terrain, reviews, accessories, history, displays, models, styles, scales, reviews, accessories, classifieds, and more!
Full Forum Listing
Explore Our Forums
Recommended Communities
