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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
Ok, so bikers in general have the 'turbo boosters' special rule, they also have 'relentless' special rule. Now these two special abilities overlap each other when it comes to shooting.

Turbo boosters allows units to move extra and receive a cover save, at the cost that they may do nothing else.
but...
Relentless allows units to shoot even though they moved.

Now some would say that because in the 'bikes' section of the rulebook, that turbo-boosters was written in the movement section while relentless was written in the shooting section. So relentless 'trumps' the shooting effects of turbo boosting.

Now my understanding is that relentless is a rule written based on a models standard characteristics, so it applies to normal (even codex) movement. And turbo boosting obviously says that your unit is trying to move extra so they need to concentrate more, meaning they can't concentrate on shooting.

I argued the opposite to a non ork player and they practically flipped but could not provide a counter argument for shooting while turbo boosting. I just wanted to hear how others read this and if the philosophy on this understanding of the special rules applies throughout the rest of the game....

Maybe if we all unite we can convince everyone that relentless trumps turbo boosting!? Anyone wanna take a biker squad then?

Edit: Darn, I found proof in Gutsmek's profile. "When Wazdakka uses a 'Turbo Boost' he may still fire his weapons that turn." Guess they wouldn't say that if he could do it already cause of the general biker rules. But then again, I could argue that under the warbiker profile they repeat themselves with the 4+ save and Exhaust Cloud rule.... maybe they were just confirming it as the same with the Exhaust Cloud...
 

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Son of LO
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No. Page 76 of the BRB says the following on Relentless:

Relentless models can shoot with rapid fire and heavy weapons counting as stationary, even if they moved in the previous Movement phase, and are also allowed to assault in the same turn they fire them.
On turbo-boosting on that same page:

When using their turbo-boosters they may move up to 24'' in the Movement phase...however, so they cannot move through difficult terrain, shoot, launch assaults or execute any other voluntary action in the same turn.
The wording is clear. Relentless allows you to fire as if you had not moved and assault as if you had not fired; turbo-boosting prevents you from firing or assaulting at all. You simply cannot shoot after turbo-boosting. It is explicitly illegal.

If you attempted to pull this in an actual game, you were cheating.
 

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Ok as the above post said you CAN NOT DO WHAT YOU ARE TRYING TO DO. And just to give you a better heads up just for the future this is the kind of rules lawyering BS that makes people not want to play. And on top of that dakkaguns are assault weapons and nowhere in the relentless rule dose it state anything about assault weapons. O and i cant find where is says that bikes are relentless as far as i knew the only thing in our codex that has that rule are meganobz.
 

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Son of LO
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And on top of that dakkaguns are assault weapons and nowhere in the relentless rule dose it state anything about assault weapons.
Also a good point. Relentless only mentions rapid fire and heavy weapons. So even if we interpreted it your way p13th0r4, it wouldn't apply.

O and i cant find where is says that bikes are relentless as far as i knew the only thing in our codex that has that rule are meganobz.
Page 53 BRB, under "Bikes: Shooting".

BRB said:
Bikes have the "relentless" special rule (see page 76.)
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 · (Edited)
Thanks for quoting the text. I should have done that for those who do not have the book on hand. I think the purpose of the special rules is pretty clear, and should suffice if this were ever to come up in a game. And I think the only persons that would allow that would simply not no the rules or be starting out. I joke about this in games but it is always followed with a gut laugh.

Tiny: I was mentioning this in general, for all bikers. Assault weapons don't need the relentless rule, as you can already move, shoot, and attack in the same turn. For a reference to the bikers' relentless ability, check under the BRB, around pg 53. The stated ability is as Poodle noted. I guess there are some biker units that do not have assault weapons, otherwise this special rule would be silly.

I guess there is only one other question... if Gutsmek is joined with a unit and the unit turbo boosts, can Gutsmek still fire? I am under the understanding that he cannot...
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
guess we're both posting at the same time. Yeah I was originally mentioning it for bikers in general, not just for bikers with assault weapons.
 

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Son of LO
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Tiny: I was mentioning this in general, for all bikers. Assault weapons don't need the relentless rule, as you can already move, shoot, and attack in the same turn. For a reference to the bikers' relentless ability, check under the BRB, around pg 53.
Assault weapons don't need the relentless rule, but if you were to interpret Relentless as allowing you to shoot as if you had not turbo-boosted, it would still not apply to Ork bikes as Relentless only allows you to fire rapid fire or heavy weapons as if you were stationary. It has no effect whatsoever on assault weapons, so even if we took that very illegal reading of the rule, it wouldn't matter a stitch for Orks.

Which I guess just makes it doubly illegal, for you guys at least.

I guess there are some biker units that do not have assault weapons, otherwise this special rule would be silly.
Space Marine bikes in particular are armed with rapid fire weapons. It's also relevant for Eldar bikes with shuriken cannons, as well as Necron Destroyers.

I guess there is only one other question... if Gutsmek is joined with a unit and the unit turbo boosts, can Gutsmek still fire? I am under the understanding that he cannot...[/QUOTE]

He can. The Ork codex states he can fire even if he has turbo-boosted that turn. His unit would be definitely unable to fire, but he certainly could. Codex > BRB in these cases.
 

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Aye, that's the way I've interpreted it. Wazdakka is just that good at moving fast and retaining some semblance of accuracy at the same time.

Another question regarding bikes and assaulting, a friend was saying that his dark eldar jetbikes could turbo boost and still assault, because they are "Eldar Jetbikes", which I didn't think was right, being Eldar jetbikes just means you can always move 6" in the assault phase, right? What's the deal there?
 

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Son of LO
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Another question regarding bikes and assaulting, a friend was saying that his dark eldar jetbikes could turbo boost and still assault, because they are "Eldar Jetbikes", which I didn't think was right, being Eldar jetbikes just means you can always move 6" in the assault phase, right? What's the deal there?
Unless the Dark Eldar codex contradicts me, the deal here is that your friend is a cheating Mr. Cheatingperson who cheats. Eldar jetbikes gain a 6'' movement in the assault phase, but they cannot actually assault with it. And if I'm correct they may be unable to use it after turbo boosting either, since turbo boosting explicitly forbids any voluntary action other than turbo boosting.
 

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Unless the Dark Eldar codex contradicts me, the deal here is that your friend is a cheating Mr. Cheatingperson who cheats. Eldar jetbikes gain a 6'' movement in the assault phase, but they cannot actually assault with it.
Are you sure? I was under the impression that they could use it even if they don't assault - nothing about not assaulting. Otherwise shining spears would be rather rubbish.
And if I'm correct they may be unable to use it after turbo boosting either, since turbo boosting explicitly forbids any voluntary action other than turbo boosting.
This however is bang on the money.
 

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Aye, this was my logic as well. The 6" movement can be used for assaulting, or it can be used for just movement, as far as I am aware. But the turbo-boost rule specifically states you can't do anything but move as fast as you can (except launch big bomms, heh heh heh) so it was my understanding that you couldn't assault afterwards, eldar jetbikes or no.
 

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i agree with Chat, Orks, Eldar, Marines or what ever the dickens you might be........ If ya Boost, no assualt (its called a sacrifice) if ya dont boost, ya shoot and can assault. those extra 6 inches can be awesome to get you into cover, or get you to a safe spot and then the next turn, move normally, unload your boom sticks and then krump them over the head!

Wazzdakka is the exception to the shooting part of this rule, it states in there that he can boost and shoot. he Does not confer this awesome bonus to others even if he is in their group. so effectively it all boils down to The game was made for balance, fun and luck.
 
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