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Hi guys, i've decided to start a Dark elves army some time ago but just have around $200 to start buying some stuff, i know it isnt really much but i will buy more miniatures later. This is the list i'm planning to buy, would really like some advice by you guys:


[h=1]Lords[/h]
  • Supreme Sorceress
[h=3]Heroes (95pts)[/h]
  • Master Battle Standard Bearer
[h=3]Core (280pts)[/h]
  • Dark Riders 5x Dark Rider
  • Dark Riders 5x Dark Rider
  • Darkshards 10x Dark Elf Warrior
[h=3]Special[/h]
  • Reaper Boltthrower 2x Dark Elf Crew
[h=3]Rare[/h]
  • Doomfire Warlocks 5x Warlock



    -Do you think it is useful? (damn those expensive Witches)
 

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Most people do not mind you using proxies for troops when you are first starting out. This way you can find out if you really want to spend your money on the unit after play testing it a bit.
 

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Hey there. Just a minor rule quip - we're not technically supposed to post the costs of individual upgrades, or the price of a "naked" unit (without upgrades). It's one of those stupid things that GW hassles people about, and while we're pretty certain they can't do anything about it, it's a forum rule that we've adopted anyways, just to keep them off our backs. I edited your post for you (moderator) and removed the individual costs. As you can see, the Master+BSBupgrade is okay, because it's a model+gear, although I had to remove the individual pricing of the BSB upgrade itself. Also, the overall pricing for the Core is okay too, because it's a collection of differently priced units, but I had to remove the pricing for the "bare" units themselves.

Now on to the good stuff - the list!

Firstly, 755 is an odd number to play at. If you were going for 750, remember that the rule is that you can be under, but can't go over the agreed limit. Granted, you're not running upgrades on any of those units. If you were, and you ran max magic items and full commands on everything, your army total would be 1240pts, which is actually a decent sized force - people play at 1200 or 1250 (usually the latter), although 1500 is usually considered the lower limit on game size amongst casual players. Having said that - you've got enough Core in that list for a 2400pt game (a much more common size).

Secondly, you want magic items on your characters. You want a wardsave on your Sorceress, and you want armor and a ward on your BSB. Some other upgrades that are definitely worth it:
Repeater Crossbows on your Dark Riders - think of this as a "must take" for that regiment. It takes them from being okay, to being extremely powerful.
Shields on your Dark Riders - another good option here, because it gives you one of a very few regiments in the game that have both Fast Cav and a 4+ save.
Musicians on your Dark Riders - we keep hitting the same unit here, but the +1Ld on Rally checks is awesome.

Some spots where you can trim points:
-Characters should go into a regiment for the Look Out Sir! rolls. If you're running a character as part of a unit, drop one member of that unit. Say you have 20 Spears because you want 4 ranks. You add a character, and now you've got an extra guy hanging off the back of the regiment like a goofball. Drop him and he'll save you points.
-You don't ever need a Champion on a regiment that isn't escorting a character, and you don't need banners on a regiment that either won't win combat, or will always have friends in combat carrying a flag.

The big pointsaver that applies specifically to you:
- Everyone wants a Wizard in their games, because magic is awesome. However, most people run to a L4 out of pure instinct. It gets a little more difficult to do that in small games, and the returns aren't always there. If you're doing just for magic defense, what do you do when the other player decides he doesn't have enough points to bring any magic at all? Dark Elves have a great ability in their +1 to Cast from Hekarti's Blessing, paired with a pretty filthy lore and the ability to gain dice mid-phase. End result? Dark Elves can almost always get away with less magic than the other guys. You could run her as a Level 2 Sorceress Hero instead of Lord, and as long as you use the Dark Lore, you'd be golden.

Final thoughts:
There are lots of good units in here. Dark Riders are great, you'll always have a few of them in any army. Warlocks are equally amazing and are usually in most lists. Darkshards... not so much. Dark Riders with XBows will do just as much damage if not more (because Fast Cav) and are able to fill more roles adequately. The Shards are just there to shoot. I've seen Dark Elf "bow lines" before, where everyone showed up to the party with a quiver full of bolts, but those are rare and very one dimensional.
What your list lacks, is a hammer/anvil set up anywhere within the list. You don't have anything in there that's going to earn VictoryPoints against a regiment of Chaos Warriors, or huge mob of Orcs, because even your XBows are going to have a hard time scoring enough wounds. You need something that can get into combat, be/break Steadfast, and force the enemy to take Break Tests. Break Tests are where games are won and lost. Trying to simply kill everything on your opponent's side doesn't work. It's much faster to break and run down 100 Goblins than it is to slowly chip away at them round. The most common Hammer/Anvil setup is to combine the two roles into a single unit - often referred to as a "Deathstar".

The way I see it, the two best options for Dark Elf Deathstars are either dual-wielding Corsairs, or Blackguard. Back either unit up with a Cauldron and you're hitting Deathstar territory. It's a little out of your price range and probably a touch away from your points, but either unit would make a solid anvil for you. Games this size, I'd aim for just 2 boxes of whichever you choose. A unit of 18-20 should be perfect. Eventually, these guys might hit 30-40 strong, but that's way down the road.

Last thought for you - who are you gaming with? If they don't care if you use GW models or not (and you don't care that GW models may not be tournament legal), there are plenty of cheap alternatives out there. You could build this exact same list from Kings of War minis, and probably only spend about $100, or else you'd still spend $200 but get 2-3 times as many models.
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Thank you guys for your answers! Really helpful for me.

Most people do not mind you using proxies for troops when you are first starting out. This way you can find out if you really want to spend your money on the unit after play testing it a bit.
Yeah, that's actually an excellent idea, i guess i will do it with high cost units to test them out (like hydras for example)

Hey there. Just a minor rule quip - we're not technically supposed to post the costs of individual upgrades, or the price of a "naked" unit (without upgrades). It's one of those stupid things that GW hassles people about, and while we're pretty certain they can't do anything about it, it's a forum rule that we've adopted anyways, just to keep them off our backs. I edited your post for you (moderator) and removed the individual costs. As you can see, the Master+BSBupgrade is okay, because it's a model+gear, although I had to remove the individual pricing of the BSB upgrade itself. Also, the overall pricing for the Core is okay too, because it's a collection of differently priced units, but I had to remove the pricing for the "bare" units themselves.

Now on to the good stuff - the list!

Firstly, 755 is an odd number to play at. If you were going for 750, remember that the rule is that you can be under, but can't go over the agreed limit. Granted, you're not running upgrades on any of those units. If you were, and you ran max magic items and full commands on everything, your army total would be 1240pts, which is actually a decent sized force - people play at 1200 or 1250 (usually the latter), although 1500 is usually considered the lower limit on game size amongst casual players. Having said that - you've got enough Core in that list for a 2400pt game (a much more common size).
For some reason i absolutly forgot to upgrade the units hehe.

Secondly, you want magic items on your characters. You want a wardsave on your Sorceress, and you want armor and a ward on your BSB. Some other upgrades that are definitely worth it:
Repeater Crossbows on your Dark Riders - think of this as a "must take" for that regiment. It takes them from being okay, to being extremely powerful.
Shields on your Dark Riders - another good option here, because it gives you one of a very few regiments in the game that have both Fast Cav and a 4+ save.
Musicians on your Dark Riders - we keep hitting the same unit here, but the +1Ld on Rally checks is awesome.
Which magic items do you think are better?

Some spots where you can trim points:
-Characters should go into a regiment for the Look Out Sir! rolls. If you're running a character as part of a unit, drop one member of that unit. Say you have 20 Spears because you want 4 ranks. You add a character, and now you've got an extra guy hanging off the back of the regiment like a goofball. Drop him and he'll save you points.
-You don't ever need a Champion on a regiment that isn't escorting a character, and you don't need banners on a regiment that either won't win combat, or will always have friends in combat carrying a flag.

The big pointsaver that applies specifically to you:
- Everyone wants a Wizard in their games, because magic is awesome. However, most people run to a L4 out of pure instinct. It gets a little more difficult to do that in small games, and the returns aren't always there. If you're doing just for magic defense, what do you do when the other player decides he doesn't have enough points to bring any magic at all? Dark Elves have a great ability in their +1 to Cast from Hekarti's Blessing, paired with a pretty filthy lore and the ability to gain dice mid-phase. End result? Dark Elves can almost always get away with less magic than the other guys. You could run her as a Level 2 Sorceress Hero instead of Lord, and as long as you use the Dark Lore, you'd be golden.

Final thoughts:
There are lots of good units in here. Dark Riders are great, you'll always have a few of them in any army. Warlocks are equally amazing and are usually in most lists. Darkshards... not so much. Dark Riders with XBows will do just as much damage if not more (because Fast Cav) and are able to fill more roles adequately. The Shards are just there to shoot. I've seen Dark Elf "bow lines" before, where everyone showed up to the party with a quiver full of bolts, but those are rare and very one dimensional.
What your list lacks, is a hammer/anvil set up anywhere within the list. You don't have anything in there that's going to earn VictoryPoints against a regiment of Chaos Warriors, or huge mob of Orcs, because even your XBows are going to have a hard time scoring enough wounds. You need something that can get into combat, be/break Steadfast, and force the enemy to take Break Tests. Break Tests are where games are won and lost. Trying to simply kill everything on your opponent's side doesn't work. It's much faster to break and run down 100 Goblins than it is to slowly chip away at them round. The most common Hammer/Anvil setup is to combine the two roles into a single unit - often referred to as a "Deathstar".

The way I see it, the two best options for Dark Elf Deathstars are either dual-wielding Corsairs, or Blackguard. Back either unit up with a Cauldron and you're hitting Deathstar territory. It's a little out of your price range and probably a touch away from your points, but either unit would make a solid anvil for you. Games this size, I'd aim for just 2 boxes of whichever you choose. A unit of 18-20 should be perfect. Eventually, these guys might hit 30-40 strong, but that's way down the road.
I've heard a lot of things about the cauldron itself, some say it is a must-have while others say it is ridicously overpriced for what it does. What do you think about it?

Last thought for you - who are you gaming with? If they don't care if you use GW models or not (and you don't care that GW models may not be tournament legal), there are plenty of cheap alternatives out there. You could build this exact same list from Kings of War minis, and probably only spend about $100, or else you'd still spend $200 but get 2-3 times as many models.
I know i shouldn't because of the money i've get but i just love GW minis. Part of the things i like of Warhammer is painting and getting those minis done.

Finally i've got a new list, it goes a little further in price ($241) But i guess $40 more is not a big deal.

Heroes


  • Master
    • Battle Standard Bearer
  • Sorceress Lv2 Wizzard
Core


  • Black Ark Corsairs 10x Dark Elf Corsair
  • Dark Riders 5x Dark Rider
  • Dark Riders 5x Dark Rider
Special


  • Har Ganeth Executioners
  • Reaper Boltthrower 2x Dark Elf Crew
Rare


  • Doomfire Warlocks 5x Warlock
 

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I'm still pushing for a larger unit than 10 on any of your combat infantry. You have ASF, but return attacks can vaporize those guys. Chaos Warriors for example, will get 18A with just their front rank of 6. By the time you work in rolling to Hit and Wound, that's still 7 dead Corsairs.

Small games are tough. Definitely proxy against anyone you can, because you're trying to figure out not only what units you like, but also what the meta is like in your area. Where I'm from, we shrink entire lists, moreso than units. Your list, filled out to size (30ish Corsairs, 24 Executioners, add a Lord) looks like a 2k or 2.5k list where I play. Our small lists typically bring a sizeable block or two of CC troops, and then two smaller supporting units (Warlocks/Dark Riders, depending on whether or not you use Execs or Corsairs for your CC unit).
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
I'm still pushing for a larger unit than 10 on any of your combat infantry. You have ASF, but return attacks can vaporize those guys. Chaos Warriors for example, will get 18A with just their front rank of 6. By the time you work in rolling to Hit and Wound, that's still 7 dead Corsairs.

Small games are tough. Definitely proxy against anyone you can, because you're trying to figure out not only what units you like, but also what the meta is like in your area. Where I'm from, we shrink entire lists, moreso than units. Your list, filled out to size (30ish Corsairs, 24 Executioners, add a Lord) looks like a 2k or 2.5k list where I play. Our small lists typically bring a sizeable block or two of CC troops, and then two smaller supporting units (Warlocks/Dark Riders, depending on whether or not you use Execs or Corsairs for your CC unit).
Yeah, you're totally right, i guess i will start to using proxys while i'll get some units.
 
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