tryion can be worth the points u pay for him unfortunately teclis isn't and as such is rarely seen as anythin other than a proxy mage.
so tryion for me
so tryion for me
Tyrion or Teclis?
Of the two greatest living elven heroes which of the twins would you choose for battle. Tyrion would be for more assault orientated armies and Teclis for magic ones. But which is the most powerful/game influencing? Replies please.
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Thanks for the reply, i thought that Tyrion would be more effective because magice can only do so much and Tyrion is near imposible to kill, especiall if you cast second sign 
Tyrion is the best elven combat characted. But I have to say that Teclis is the most usefull in a game. He's pretty easy to kill if you don't protect him well.
Here's my reasoning.
Tyrion:
The good things about him are that he has 10" movement and a mount with 2 attacks at str4. He has 1 more wounds then a prince but since he can spring back to life he has 2 wounds more then a normal prince. 2+ ward save when down to 1 wound is cool but if you know how to play against him you bring him down to 2 wounds and then do something that does 2 wounds on him (bolt thrower, magic spell, cannon) and he doesn't get his 2+ ward save. He has a strength of 7 and a fury of khain spell (only once per battle).
Now a regular prince can also have 1+ as and 4+ ward save. Only need a barded steed vambraces, dragon armor and enchanted shield. Then with a lance he also does 4 str 6 attacks on the charge and he will just like Tyron hit on 3+ most likely.
So Tyrion will have to be in combat (not counting the 1 fury of khain spell) to do anything. Then he only has 4 attacks (+2 from his mount) of those 6 attacks on average 2 will miss since he needs at least a 3+ to hit. So let's assume both him and his more wound on every hit that means he can kill about 4 models per turn as long as he is in combat. And he could easily be beaten by a large rank and file unit due to 3 ranks, banner, outnumber and maybe even a magical banner. And if your enemy is smart he'll direct all his attacks on Malhandir (who counts as a monster in combat) and is only T3 with no AS. So easy combat res. and there will be a big chance he runs and gets run down. Too much liability. Especially at 2.5 times the points for a decked out prince and an extra hero slot.
Now Teclis can do soooo much more damage in a battle. He can have multiple flames of the phoenix going and reroll all the ones that don't wound. I've seem him kill 30 models in one magic phase and you don't have to put him in harms way. If he has 2 flames of the phoenix going and casts another one and a fury of khain. That's just nasty. And every rool to wound that doesn't wound he can reroll and if he doesn't like the result of the number of hits on the fury of khain he can reroll that too.
Teclis has my vote hands down.
A straight up fight between teclis and tyrion will only won by tyrion if they get into combat. And Teclis only needs one piece of terrain to prevent that.
Here's my reasoning.
Tyrion:
The good things about him are that he has 10" movement and a mount with 2 attacks at str4. He has 1 more wounds then a prince but since he can spring back to life he has 2 wounds more then a normal prince. 2+ ward save when down to 1 wound is cool but if you know how to play against him you bring him down to 2 wounds and then do something that does 2 wounds on him (bolt thrower, magic spell, cannon) and he doesn't get his 2+ ward save. He has a strength of 7 and a fury of khain spell (only once per battle).
Now a regular prince can also have 1+ as and 4+ ward save. Only need a barded steed vambraces, dragon armor and enchanted shield. Then with a lance he also does 4 str 6 attacks on the charge and he will just like Tyron hit on 3+ most likely.
So Tyrion will have to be in combat (not counting the 1 fury of khain spell) to do anything. Then he only has 4 attacks (+2 from his mount) of those 6 attacks on average 2 will miss since he needs at least a 3+ to hit. So let's assume both him and his more wound on every hit that means he can kill about 4 models per turn as long as he is in combat. And he could easily be beaten by a large rank and file unit due to 3 ranks, banner, outnumber and maybe even a magical banner. And if your enemy is smart he'll direct all his attacks on Malhandir (who counts as a monster in combat) and is only T3 with no AS. So easy combat res. and there will be a big chance he runs and gets run down. Too much liability. Especially at 2.5 times the points for a decked out prince and an extra hero slot.
Now Teclis can do soooo much more damage in a battle. He can have multiple flames of the phoenix going and reroll all the ones that don't wound. I've seem him kill 30 models in one magic phase and you don't have to put him in harms way. If he has 2 flames of the phoenix going and casts another one and a fury of khain. That's just nasty. And every rool to wound that doesn't wound he can reroll and if he doesn't like the result of the number of hits on the fury of khain he can reroll that too.
Teclis has my vote hands down.
A straight up fight between teclis and tyrion will only won by tyrion if they get into combat. And Teclis only needs one piece of terrain to prevent that.
i agree with sylvester completely. the only thing that Tyrion is good for is character killing. once, just for fun, i pitted him one on one with a greater demon of khorne, and he won! but teclis can wipe away entire regiments with his allmighty magic. so my vote is for teclis.
But I think someone needs to be added to the discussion. I think the Everqueen could give Teclis and tyrion a run for their money. My vote still goes to Teclis but against a chaos deamon army I'd take the Everqueen no doubt. She can take a bloodthirster down pretty easy when no other mage can (since he has magic resistance 2) And Tyrion doesn't stand much of a chance against a bloodthirster either.
but i did see tyrion beat a bloodthirster with my own eyes! it was a long drawn out duel, and tyrion almost died, but he came out on top in the end.
I'm not saying he can't but in the majority of the cases the bloodthirster will win. The everqueen will almost always beat a bloodthrister. (unless the player is stupid). All she has to do is stay out of his charge arch. And even if she gets into his charge arch just make sure you have rerolls so you have a good chance to land that first special attack and elliminate all of the bloodthirsters attacks.
i actually agree with him the everqueen rocks and is the only sp character i ever feild in my he army and sometimes the handmaiden squad aint bad either.
what about eltharion i beleive he has to get a mention here as he's jus as good as the others.
what about eltharion i beleive he has to get a mention here as he's jus as good as the others.
I would always pick Tyrion. Magic is fickle at the best of times, and Teclis is far more expensive than Tyrion and easier to kill.
I have tried using both, when I used Tyrion he wiped half the opponent's army and sent terror into my opponent, when I used Teclis his best spells got dispelled and tunellers jumped up near him and held him steady for most of the battle.
I have tried using both, when I used Tyrion he wiped half the opponent's army and sent terror into my opponent, when I used Teclis his best spells got dispelled and tunellers jumped up near him and held him steady for most of the battle.
yeah as much as i like magic teclis jus isn't worth it, a lv4 archmage will do as much damage but do it much more cost effectivly
But this time it is Teclis comapred to Tyrion, and not Teclis to a lvl 4 Archmage.
I'm no HE player, but I can assure you both can deal a lot of damage. Being special Characters, they have significant strengths and will probably cost a lot.
But in the end the Mage is safest. Tyrion can get bogged down fast. Teclis can keep up casting magic (if well protected) as long as he can and as well it being deadly magic.
Game influencing would certainly be Teclis.
Why?
Teclis is a Mage. Your enemy will move to destroy him first, thus influencing the game.
Your enemy sees Tyrion is on horseback. He can't really avoid him the whole game so he let's Tyrion go around a bit. Off course he will try to bog down Tyrion, but in ultimately most influence comes by Teclis, who is potential much more dangerous mage.
If I was playing with my VC against a HE army with either Teclis or Tyrion, I will fast focus on bogging Tyrion down, knowing they (he's probably in a Silver Helms unit, or Dragon Princes) will break. Instead, the main battle in a HE army including Teclis will be the one fighting Teclis, as I want him cleared up as fast as possible. I will send Fell Bats and probably a huge block of Zombies and some other flanking unit into them (again, he'll probably be in a Spearmen unit).
If I had to choose, it will certainly be Tyrion. He is a big threat, but people can underestimate him just as I explained above. Teclis will attract way too much attention, and therefore he is mostly not worth his points; on most occasions he doesn't have enough time to gain back his points or even perform his function.
Cheers,
-MvC
I'm no HE player, but I can assure you both can deal a lot of damage. Being special Characters, they have significant strengths and will probably cost a lot.
But in the end the Mage is safest. Tyrion can get bogged down fast. Teclis can keep up casting magic (if well protected) as long as he can and as well it being deadly magic.
Game influencing would certainly be Teclis.
Why?
Teclis is a Mage. Your enemy will move to destroy him first, thus influencing the game.
Your enemy sees Tyrion is on horseback. He can't really avoid him the whole game so he let's Tyrion go around a bit. Off course he will try to bog down Tyrion, but in ultimately most influence comes by Teclis, who is potential much more dangerous mage.
If I was playing with my VC against a HE army with either Teclis or Tyrion, I will fast focus on bogging Tyrion down, knowing they (he's probably in a Silver Helms unit, or Dragon Princes) will break. Instead, the main battle in a HE army including Teclis will be the one fighting Teclis, as I want him cleared up as fast as possible. I will send Fell Bats and probably a huge block of Zombies and some other flanking unit into them (again, he'll probably be in a Spearmen unit).
If I had to choose, it will certainly be Tyrion. He is a big threat, but people can underestimate him just as I explained above. Teclis will attract way too much attention, and therefore he is mostly not worth his points; on most occasions he doesn't have enough time to gain back his points or even perform his function.
Cheers,
-MvC
Thanks for the replies. I didnt think that the otherr elf hero in the book(name doesnt spring to mid - Imrik or something like that) was that great, or Korhil for that matter either. Eltharion is good but the two real powerful ones form the book are tyrion and teclis. Teh everqueen just isnt as powerful. I'd have to say teclis is the most powerful now cos wha tsylvester said. The potential for dmage is amazing. if im correct the conflageration of domm could go on forever with the re-roll.
there is an faq around that has put limitations on teclis's magic item that make him soo good.
Yeah hes not quite as good as the raw book may suggest...
Imrik is indeed pretty crap. If I were to pick any of the HE special characters for a battle it would have to be Eltharion. He isn't a huge point sink, hes pretty good though fragile, and allows you to take more SM if you like.
Teclis is no big threat, if my opponent had him I'd go for him not because hes dangerous but because hes a big stackload of easy victory point.
Imrik is indeed pretty crap. If I were to pick any of the HE special characters for a battle it would have to be Eltharion. He isn't a huge point sink, hes pretty good though fragile, and allows you to take more SM if you like.
But obviously if you had to pick one of the two, and you realised that Teclis was barely better than a lvl4 mage yet more expensive than Tyrion, for the sake of your army you are likely to pick Tyrion...Mannfred said:But this time it is Teclis comapred to Tyrion, and not Teclis to a lvl 4 Archmage
Teclis is no big threat, if my opponent had him I'd go for him not because hes dangerous but because hes a big stackload of easy victory point.
Which eltharion would you go for? The one before he was blinded or the one after?
New one, blind and on foot. The model looks absolutely sweet too.
i'd take Tyron.
Teclis has no real defence to ward him from misfires so one bad day and booom.. no teclis anymore.
Ad tyron has a lot of killing and staying power. he kills chariots in one blow. Can cast fury of khaine once in the battle (very nice to surprise our opponent with....:shifty: )
Ansd stays a long time alive, 1+ armor, 4+ ward, rebirth i love him.
so...
Tyron
Teclis has no real defence to ward him from misfires so one bad day and booom.. no teclis anymore.
Ad tyron has a lot of killing and staying power. he kills chariots in one blow. Can cast fury of khaine once in the battle (very nice to surprise our opponent with....:shifty: )
Ansd stays a long time alive, 1+ armor, 4+ ward, rebirth i love him.
so...
Tyron
the blind one is the only good eltharion the version on a griffon jus plain suks.
and i beleive that every sp character has to be compared to a choice in the same book
teclis vs lv4 mage = mage is better
tryion vs mounted prince = tryion is better
eltharion sm vs sm price = eltharion is better
eltharion g vs price on griffion = prince is better
everqueen vs lv4 mage = everqueen is better
imrik vs prince on dragon = prince is better
arsinil vs prince on dragon = arsinil is better
everquenn guard vs phoinex guard = everqueen guard is better
obviously this varies in oppinion but i find that ya can't compare sp chgaracter to other sp characters as there is no middle ground between them.
and i beleive that every sp character has to be compared to a choice in the same book
teclis vs lv4 mage = mage is better
tryion vs mounted prince = tryion is better
eltharion sm vs sm price = eltharion is better
eltharion g vs price on griffion = prince is better
everqueen vs lv4 mage = everqueen is better
imrik vs prince on dragon = prince is better
arsinil vs prince on dragon = arsinil is better
everquenn guard vs phoinex guard = everqueen guard is better
obviously this varies in oppinion but i find that ya can't compare sp chgaracter to other sp characters as there is no middle ground between them.
you forgot about Korhil, the white lion guy. anyways thanks for that reply. But who is arsinil, i remeber that there is something in the book about him. where would i got his rules plz?
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