[Daniosis750]

Okay so after 4 years of not playing iv'e decided to get my backside back into 40k TT, now ive decided to carry on with my chaos army, and tzeench looks the most appealing. I thought id ask a few things off some veteran tzeench players before i dedicate myself to a particular mark.



1) What are the limitations of the Tzeench army

2) Is it preferable to have Ahriman as a HQ or is something like Deamon Prince and a termie armour lord better for higher point games

3) Does the fact the Tzeench marines only get 1 Combat attack hinder them from being effective in CC (well apart from hordes that much is obvious)

4) How did you weigh up the benefits of the Tzeench mark above the other marks? Furthermore if i was to give my army the mark of tzeench would that limit any options of what i can take in terms of my army list

5) Finally any good basic army lists that you can advise on?

Edit: 6)here's a modelling question, considering the kit comes with everything to make normal marines as well, is it possible to use say 1k sons "body" and a normal CSM head, and have them still be classed as 1k sons marines?

Thank you for any replies given its all appreciated!

 

[1deadcop]

well do you want to be really fulffy? or what?

 

[Daniosis750]

i dont mind really, to be honest id rather have some good CC capability

you wouldnt happen to know about the modelling question would you?

 

[Kaptin Elwazz]

I don`t think that the head counts so seriously just let your opponent know that they are 1KSons and keep in mind the WYSIWYG.

For example: Legio colours- http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/catalog/productDetail.jsp?catId=cat1300079&prodId=prod1095442

http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/c...210004&categoryId=600003&section=&aId=1200020

If the colours are not that important, the head surely won`t be a problem. (same with the DG greenish in one picture, brownish on next one)

Some more answers (I am not that veteran in Chaos, but that`s what I learnt here)

Daemon Prince is always the best choice, Ahriman is not that good for his cost.
There are no limitations anymore, but noone will stop You to use the limitations from the older dex.
They have less attack yes, but they can assault after shooting, so they are not that bad. Not the top though
For a similar question I was advised to use both Chaos Marines and 1KSons. All of the marks do different things IMO and I am not able to decide what is better. SW players -I guess - don`t like MoT that much...

 

[Daniosis750]

thank you, your reply has helped a lot, i was thinking of using the tzeench bodies and chaos heads, but putting a couple of tzeench marine heads in the squad to let people know it is a tzeench squad.

does anyone know if a lord in termie armour and a retouine of terminators is a good idea?

 

[Black_rose_00]

Okay so after 4 years of not playing iv'e decided to get my backside back into 40k TT, now ive decided to carry on with my chaos army, and tzeench looks the most appealing. I thought id ask a few things off some veteran tzeench players before i dedicate myself to a particular mark.



1) What are the limitations of the Tzeench army: None, all chaos factions are "equal" you take your codex and play what's in it. Their are no special rules for the factions now.

2) Is it preferable to have Ahriman as a HQ or is something like Deamon Prince and a termie armour lord better for higher point games: The deamon prince with wings and a psychic power is really cheap for what he does so is the mainstay of most chaos builds.

3) Does the fact the Tzeench marines only get 1 Combat attack hinder them from being effective in CC (well apart from hordes that much is obvious): Thousand sons have only one attack but CSM with the mark of tzeentch have 2 and can take special weapons and power fists on the champs

4) How did you weigh up the benefits of the Tzeench mark above the other marks? Furthermore if i was to give my army the mark of tzeench would that limit any options of what i can take in terms of my army list : No limitations on what you can take, but fluffwise you do not take troops from the other gods. The only benefit of the mark of tzeentch is giving out Inv saves or upgrading the ones you already have. With cover giving you a 4+ Inv save or the 5+ the mark gives I rather hug cover for the cost. In close combat a Inv save is good but not golden except against termies or the like

5) Finally any good basic army lists that you can advise on? Play 1-2 units of thousand sons and 2+ units of CSM with the mark of tzeench so you have acess to meltaguns and powerfists. Play a prince with wings. Play anti-tank units because the environnement has a lot of tanks.

Edit: 6)here's a modelling question, considering the kit comes with everything to make normal marines as well, is it possible to use say 1k sons "body" and a normal CSM head, and have them still be classed as 1k sons marines? I would play the thousand sons with the proper heads for thousand sons and play the CSM with the mark of tzeench with the thousand sons body ans the CSM heads. When it comes to building an army you can always do whatever you want, it's your army, just let your opponent know beforehand what is what.

Thank you for any replies given its all appreciated!

Hope this answers your questions.

I personnaly like terminators in my thousand army, they can take a beeting and you do not want to go in hand to hand with them (I play 9 for fluff, so it's a pretty big unit). I also play a unit of deamons because it's the only thing cheap in the army list and they can handle hand to hand ok(9 again for fluff)

 

[Daniosis750]

your post was indeed a good help, many thanks, i was thinking of fielding the DP with a termie lord and getting those psychic powers in there!

thanks for your help, what psychic powers do you take for your army?

-Danny-

 

[Rabbit]

::: Please remember to capitalize the words at the beginning of each sentence :::

Thanks,

~Rabbit

 

[Nhyx]

Like chaos demons, if you're going for a 1 god list, TZ lists tend to do better than any other single god list.

CSM with a mark of TZ are pretty sweet, getting the invulnerable save in addition to their normal armor/cover save.

1K sons are the bane of all MEQ lists, the inferno bolts very nice while camping an objective. Pair them up with a squad of havoks or CSM with some transport busting capabilities, and laugh as your opponent cries.\

As for HQs, you should stick with a demon prince with warptime and either doombolt or breath of chaos.

Another option for HQ is a sorc with the TZ mark, give him a disk (wings), warptime, and breath of chaos, cast warptime at the beginning of the turn, then breath of chaos, ouchies.....

Or, warptime + force weapon. Only get that instadeath roll with warptime if you are a TZ sorc.

 

[Mad Cat]

Don't forget the terminators with IoT. A 4+ invulnerable save is very useful and termies make up for the 1ksons lack of combat prowess. Multiple combiweapons and a chainfist can make them antitank too.

A sample 1500 point list

HQ: Prince, MoT, wings, Warptime, Doombolt 185

Elites: 5 Terminators, IoT, 4 Combiplasma, 1 HF+PF 220

Troops: 10 CSM, 2 meltas, Champ + PF, IoT, Rhino 280
Troops: 10 CSM, 2 flamers, Champ + PF, IoT, Rhino 270
Troops: 9 Thousand Sons, doombolt, Rhino 289

Heavy: Predator AC/2LC 130
Heavy: Vindicator 125

Total 1499

 

[Daniosis750]

Very nice! thank you for all the replies so far, is it viable to put a demon prince on a disk or is it only sorcerors that can be put on a disk of Tzeentch. Iv'e only just realised ive been spelling Tzeentch wrong oh dear -_-' is it only Ahriman who is able to cast 3 spells per player turn? as i can see that being useful casting winds of change or warptime on an opposing players turn.
This may sound ridiculous but i'm not a huge fan of rhinos, is it really necessary to have the extra movement ability for the squad or am i just asking to be gunned down without one?


Thanks again

-Danny-

 

[Mad Cat]

Princes cannot ride discs but if you really wanted to model one like that you could just say the disc counts as wings.

Princes and sorcerors of Tzeentch can cast 2 powers per turn. Only Ahriman can use 3.

Rhinos are useful but footslogging armies can be good too. Meltaguns in rhinos are good at getting into close range for tank killing. The rhinos main use is it increases the changes of your squad getting in the first punch such as dismounting and rappid firing at an enemy. Trousand sons of course can plod around firing bolters at maximum range if they wish.

 

[Daniosis750]

So in order to get the best out of the 1k sons HQ choice, it seems more viable to start with a sorcerer rather than a terminator lord, i do actually have the Ahriman model, so i suppose i could just say he's a sorcerer for lower point games.

thank you for answering all my questions, so on a different topic, what are your colour schemes for tzeentch are they the generic blue/yellow/gold or have you given them your own flare?

-Danny-

 

[Rabbit]

Like chaos demons, if you're going for a 1 god list, TZ lists tend to do better than any other single god list.

1K sons are the bane of all MEQ lists, the inferno bolts very nice while camping an objective. Pair them up with a squad of havoks or CSM with some transport busting capabilities, and laugh as your opponent cries.\

Really, Nyhx? They've never produced good results for me when compared to Death Guard or World Eaters. In fact, even against MEQs, DG & WE seem to be on par with Thousand Sons. Against, swarms, TS fall prey to the "elitist" weakness, in that their Inferno Bolts are effectively treated as basic bolters.

Daniosis750, Thousand Sons are highly specialized. Traditionally, they've been classed as an "underpowered" legion. Take, for instance, basic Chaos Marines or Plaguers: They're pretty much effective against everything. Berzerkers fall into a similar lot: Since they receive so many S5 attacks on the charge, they're capable of managing both swarms and monstrous creatures, as well as their typical strong point, which is as Marine killers. Does the same thing apply to Thousand Sons?

Before you go out and invest a small fortune in any Warhammer army, I'd suggest you dink around with a few on the table... see which ones fit your play-style. In my experience, Thousand Sons Marines operate best in a mixed army, where they can support your spearhead.

EDIT: I just realized how derogatory I came off against Thousand Sons, which wasn't my intention. They *can* be a rather solid army; it's just that they tend to have trouble when not in their element.

 

[zhambah]

So, while this topic is up I thought I would hijack it for my own needs, because I’m mean like that.

It concerns largely the HQ’s for Tzeentch, so its not a million miles off the topic

1) The Chaos Sorcerer with MoT, and a familiar… can it cast 3 spells?

2) A chaos lord with a Tzeentch demon weapon, under the deamon weapon description, it states that deamon weapons count as power weapons in addition to the other rules… also, tzeentch deamon weapon is a shooty weapon, when it inflicts a wound when shooting, does the opponent get an armour save, or is it just a mediocre weapon by comparison?

And in my experience of 1ks I’ve used them in as a short range fire in a long range fire army, if that makes any sense… basically I took out the transport, then the armour, left the infantry to foot slog across the board, then moping them up with rapid fire inferno bolts, mind you I’ve only played 2 games as a shooty chaos player, and I did pretty well… could have been a completely different tale if I wasn’t facing marines both times…

 

[Daniosis750]

Thank you for your post, i have played before like i said its been 4 years but i have played before and chaos has always been my favorite, im more of a shooty/psychic powers person than anything else which is why tzeentch appeals to me so much.

In order to combat the lack of combat for the sons i was thinking either possessed or raptors, which ones do you find best?

-Danny-

 

[zhambah]

In all honesty, neither… possessed are too unreliable, yeah they are predominately a melee unit but as for what you get is just too random for my liking, also, a massive point sink…

And raptors… while not as much of a point sink as possessed… get shot to high heaven… I’ve run a couple of lists with them in, each time they are one of the first unit, if not the first unit to be taken out.
Don’t get me wrong, if raptors did get into CC, they would do some damage, but for the most part they are a csm with more movement

Basically point for point, I would say normal everyday joe csm is better, due to the fact there not a big target and you know exactly what you can do with them.
I would recommend something khorney… but keeping with the fluff rule… some melee terms could be what your looking for in terms of CC, but like the raptors… they will get shot at… loads… so find a nice wall to hide them around until the time is right, same if your going to use raptors… I suppose that was your plan all along… but meh… never really rated raptors, thinking there so much better than joe csm… just because they have shiney jetpacks…

Erm anyway, enough of my random ramblings…

 

[Nhyx]

Really, Nyhx? They've never produced good results for me when compared to Death Guard or World Eaters. In fact, even against MEQs, DG & WE seem to be on par with Thousand Sons. Against, swarms, TS fall prey to the "elitist" weakness, in that their Inferno Bolts are effectively treated as basic bolters.

Not only talking about using 1k sons here, Rabbit. TZ Marked CSM, TZ marked termies, WITH some 1k sons.

 

[Daniosis750]

I didn't really have an original plan hence why im asking here for hints and tips im currently making a retouine of 1k sons now and god damn hybrid kits! >.<

i think melee termies will be the way to go

and maybe a termie lord i dunno still bamboozled about the HQ

its either going to be DP + Sorcerer or DP + Termie

-Danny-

 

[zhambah]

why not DP + DP... as that what most people use... but they use MoS and Lash... also... you could be a really tight git and got for a basic basic single hq... and use the points elsewhere... where you think they might be most successful