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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
HQ 330
90 Seer Council
36 Farseer: Mindwar, Pistol, Witchblade, Rune of Witnessing
51 Farseer: Guide, Pistol, Witchblade, Rune of Witnessing
81 Farseer: Fortune, Pistol, Witchblade, Rune of Witnessing
7 Warlock: Augment, Pistol, CC Weapon
7 Warlock: Augment, Pistol, CC Weapon
7 Warlock: Augment, Pistol, Weapon
23 Warlock: Embolden, Pistol, CC Weapon
28 Warlock: Enhance, Pistol, CC Weapon
330

ELites 201
Howlling Banshees X10
Exarch
Power Blades
War shout
201
I Have Considered the use of Scorpions over Banshees (I may save more points that way)
Troops 731

Black Strom Guardians X 16
42 Warlock:Witch blade, Enhance, Pistol
170

Black Defenders X 20
BrightLance
33 Warlock:20 Conceal, pistol, Close Combat Weapon
243

Guardian Defenders X10
Shuriken Cannon
115

Guardian Defenders X11
88

Guardian Defenders X10
Shruiken Cannon
115

Fast Attack 195

Vypers
Starcannons
195
They will be deployed alone

Heavy Support 540

300 War Walkers: Starcannons X6
120 Wraithlord: Starcannon
120 Wraithlord: Starcannon

1997 Points



So there it is. I was thinking of maybe another squad of banshees over the vypers, and change the heavy weapons in the guardian squads around a bit.

I feel like this is a good list.... but I keep fighting with all the other possibilites
 

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Generally it looks good, but I want to give some pointers.

The Banshees sort of lacks a purpose, and also they are pretty fragile units to deploy without a transport. If you are serious in keeping them, you should remove War Shout and power blades from the Exarch and arm her with an Executioner.

But I suggest you drop the Banshees in favor of 10 or 8 Warp Spiders.

Your Storm Guardians will have the same problem as the Banshees, they are extremely easy to wittle down with small arms fire. You should give the Warlock conceal instead of enhance, not as effective in combat but at least they'll get there.

I suggest you drop the Bright lance from the big black Guardian squad, with that many Guardians you are wasting their high quality firepower when staying back at long range.

For the other Guardian squads, get rid of the Shuriken Cannons (I figure this is what you meant) and make them two squads of 15, drop a Vyper and buy them a concealing Warlock each. Now they should be very useful for you.

Vypers are fine, but drop one as I said to buy two Warlocks.

I strongly suggest you put bright lances on those Wraithlords, you will have way too little anti-tank for 2000 pts otherwise.

If you do this, your list should improve a lot.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 · (Edited)
I like the idea of changing the Brightlance to another squad.

I'm gonna stick with the enhance on the storm guard's warlock. The reason being, they are only 8 points each. I'm not devestaed when they die. With enhance they don't die easy in close combat. plus WS5 I5 for 8 points is quite a deal.

I have gone back and forth with my wraithlords heavy weapons. I chose Starcannons because they are troop killers, and I prefer to go after troops with the wraithlord (due to the fact most of the troops can't even hurt him).

Now that I look back, maybe two vypers is enough, so I will take your advice on the warlocks
 

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I strongly agree with Viktors opinion about the banshees. They need either a transport to get them somewhere quicker or replacing with something faster. This way you have two types of units with great mobility able to act as a quick response to whatever may change during play.

The rest of the army seems fine though with only 1 brightlance in 2000pts your anti-tank ability is lacking.
 

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I support all that has been said but I really dont like warwalkers, yes they might be usefull in such ulthwe force but I would drop all of em and add 2 serpents for banshees and perhaps one storm guardian squad. Also I dont think that you need all 3 farseers, and how many vipers are you taking????...2...3??? If yes, then you definitely dont need warwalkers. Thats my opinion so feel free to comment
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
I have already mad another thread about the Seer Concil. However, one of the farseers would be cheaper if I took out the warwalkers (I would drop the Guide).

I typically never have any success with any of the aspect warriors. I have never used banshees before, and I really was just seeing what everyone esle had to say about them.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
I played a space marines with this list. Changing it to some of the suggestions mentioned.

I hate to say it, by turn four the only things left were my wraithlords, seer council, and banshees (who were hiding in a wave serpent for the most part)

As much as I love the eldar, I'm losing confidence in them. Me and my friends have been playing 40k for about one year now. And up until now I would make lists that dominate them all (necrons, tau, dark eldar, orks, khorne, space marines, tyranid). But now my friend who plays the space marines has a pretty good list. When I win its close, when I lose, he rips me to shreds. I would like to enter tournaments with them, but now I see how fragile the eldar can be. I feel that the only things that are good in the codex are wraithlords and the seer council.

I'm gonna give it up on atleast the Ulthwe for awhile and try out some of the other craftworlds, or maybe start including Harlequins.
 

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It's not all about the lists though, this list should rip marines apart. I think you simply need new tactics and ways to play. Experiment a little.
 

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mist-man said:
I played a space marines with this list. Changing it to some of the suggestions mentioned.

I hate to say it, by turn four the only things left were my wraithlords, seer council, and banshees (who were hiding in a wave serpent for the most part)

As much as I love the eldar, I'm losing confidence in them. Me and my friends have been playing 40k for about one year now. And up until now I would make lists that dominate them all (necrons, tau, dark eldar, orks, khorne, space marines, tyranid). But now my friend who plays the space marines has a pretty good list. When I win its close, when I lose, he rips me to shreds. I would like to enter tournaments with them, but now I see how fragile the eldar can be. I feel that the only things that are good in the codex are wraithlords and the seer council.
My advice would be to continue with them and improve your own skills when playing. Eldar are meant to be fragile but hard hitting.

The problem with your list is that I think you are spending too much on Seer councils (try limiting to 250pts) and units that dish out as many starcannons as possible. The bulk of your army being the gaurdians doesn't have any real effective platforms or warlocks to offer them protection with conceal, so little surpirse they didn't survive. I really dislike the warwalkers, they eat up too many of your points and in a regular Ulthwe army you can feild alot better for those points. The Vyper also hasn't really got much to it, I see it moving out of cover to shoot three shots then being left out in the open to get shot back at.

In general I think the list could do with a little re-work, knock out the one/both of the wraithlords and warwalkers as well as the vyper and reduce the points cost on the seer-council. Use these points to feild units that may work better for the army (Falcons, wave serpants for gardians, warp spiders etc) and improve the gaurdians (Single shot weapons platforms on compulsory choice (missle launcher/brightlance) or multishot weapons for the lower ballistic skill gaurdians (starcannons, multilasers) and warlocks with conceal) . Oh yes, I think you should give the Exarch an Executioner instead or power blades, this will aid you killing some of the tougher units you may encounter.

Oh yeh, Im not sure of this but I don't think there's a requirement on warlocks needing psychic powers, so it may be an idea just to buy some without to use as a sheild and some extra close combat attacks.
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
The list was pretty different after the changes:

I dont remember all of it, but this was close:

HQ
Seer council: farseers with Witch Blades and Runes of witnessing, two with mind war, one with fortune. Three Warlocks: Two augments, One Enhance.
279

Elites
Ten Banshees with waveserpent. No exarch
270

Troops
16 Black Storms W/ warlock armed with enhance and Witchblade They got shot down, and by the time they got to assult, they were at half their original number. I did regret at that point no taking the Conceal power, however, they are rather expendable
170
20 Black Defenders W/ Conceal
193
15 Defenders W/ Conceal
153
15 Defenders W/ Conceal
153

Fast Attack
Two Vypers with Brightlances
130

Heavy Support
Wraithlord w/starcannons
120
Wraithlord w/starcannons
120
Warwalkers w/starcannons
300
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
It was actually a 1850 game I belive.

The Warwalkers could have saved them selves, but I was about three inches away from a devesator squad with four missile launchers. The worst part about it was the fact that I could have deployed three inches closer... but for some reason I didn't, even though I knew I was in range of the missle launchers

Wraitlords did as expected. They always win in close combat and they took only one or two wounds from shooting. Luckily (Or unluckily) the warwalkers took the first shots against the devesators.

I should consider not using the walkers anymore, but they do provide alot of support. And sometimes that has proven to win games for me. (One game they alone did some much damage to an attack bike squad that they lost in assult the round THEY charged)

The problem with the guardians is the fact that they always die fast.... no matter what. I felt I made a mistake using a warlock with conceal, and keeping them in the front was a mistake. The alternative would have been one in the front and one with a starcannon.
It would have only been a few points more for a Shuriken cannon too (what I had orignally) and that 5+ save does nothing. It may seem like it like a good idea, but the save was crap.

The banshees were a waste. They could have maybe done soemthing, but we quit at turn four, so they didnt get to move in their serpent much.

The vypers were a big loss. I was hunting a whirlwind. So I moved fast and prepared to fire away at it. (it was behind something). The beauty was, even if it moved, I would of still had line of site. And it was a squad of marines that nabed one, and the second one missed his shot and the whirlwind ran away some more. Later the Vyper died.
 

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War Walkers are awesome... you just need to be careful with them. I suggest you drop one of them since a squad of 2 is a bit better; they are easier to move around and the enemy will have to kill both to score any points at all. Try to guide them instead to make up for the lost shots.

Plain Guardian squads are not really good against marines, so don't expect too much of them.
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 · (Edited)
I dropped the guide to save a few points on the list. Now that I think harder, I think I dropped the entire farseer. But I would like to have more things that can fight off a T4 3+SV model. Right now I have wraithlords, starcannons, and Seer Council (who still can't break the save). I'm lucky this time that the deployment helped me protect my wraithlords a little bit better from heavy weapons. But there are games where I lose one right away. The great danger of facing a lascannon or other heavy weapon does not keep me from bringing them. It's hard to say that the wraithlord is not onr of the best units in the entire game based on the things it can do versus the amout of points it costs.

I try aspect warriors, but the only ones who seem to be giving me anything good in return are the Fire Dragons, and if someone gets into Close Combat with them, it means a 170 point squad is going to die. I wish I has something to deep strike with, but the hawks are the worst of all the aspects.

However, I have been thinking about either A: Using a shining spears squad (maybe not under Ulthwe anymore) or B: Using a five man hawk team and Baharroth to deep strike on important enemies.
 
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