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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
i've seen a lot of guys who say this list can't be beaten or that list can't be beaten and usually they can be smacked with an equally unbalanced list. however, i was playing against a friend with nids today. his synapse creatures were the hive tyrant and 3 squads of warriors. one warrior squad was a close combat squad, the others shooting. in order to stop me killing all his synapse creatures, he hid two squads of warriors behind the four carnifexs he has on the board. monstrous creatures block los (obviously).

what is stopping an eldar player using a list that contains 3 wraithlords, an avatar and three full squads of vypers with starcannons and ctm? yes it's cheesy and wrong and all that "fairness" entails, but you turn up to tournaments with that and no-one will touch you. 27 starcannon shots a turn and to get to them you have to kill 4 monstrous creatures. AND the whole thing adds up to 1000 points pretty much, leaving (as we usually play 2k) a lot of points to pour into troops and elites.

if you turned up to a GT with this army, is there any way it's going to be beaten? thoughts? does it prove that however much we moan, our list is broken?
 

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Favored of Tzeentch
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Write the list out like the other lists on the forum, to make it easier for us to help you.
 

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remember, lists aint everything, it's how you play and how to make your opponent worry. (especially if u have an all infiltrating army :yes: )
 

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x wardancer x said:
remember, lists aint everything, it's how you play and how to make your opponent worry. (especially if u have an all infiltrating army :yes: )
But when you play Eldar, the army list is half the battle.
 

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hes true last time i played eldar i had the worlds crummyist list
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
you've necro'd this thread somewhat. however, to make my point;

HQ:
Avatar
Farseer - ccw, pistol, fortune

Troops
2 Defender squads (13 man)
grav platforms and starcannons
warlock, ccw, pistol, conceal

2 storm squads (20 man)
warlock, ccw, pistol, enhance

Fast
Vyper Squad (3)
starcannon, ctm

Vyper squad (3)
starcannon, ctm

Heavy
3 wraithlords, brightlances

Total: 1838


the wraithlords and the avatar provide a screen for the vypers, meaning for at least one turn, probably two, you get 18 uncontested starcannon shots.

the storm guardians and defenders hold the flanks through weight of numbers.

it's a list i would never play with. i consider it unfair. the strength of the starcannon and the ctm give us such an advantage it's untrue.
 

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theriddles said:
it's a list i would never play with. i consider it unfair. the strength of the starcannon and the ctm give us such an advantage it's untrue.
And painting 65+ Guardians is sort of boring, trust me I know. ^_^

I guess that list could work pretty good, but in order to get better the Storm Guardians need conceal. Otherwise their staying power will be very poor, and no one will waste shots at your defender Guardians who have this power and make harder kills. Thus if you don't have conceal on all four, those on the defenders are kind of wasted. At least in my theory.
 

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Still, this is no reason to grumble about the Eldar codex - if one of my friends turned up with a list likee that, I'd refuse to play him. However, the guy whose won the big GW 40k tournament three[/i] times in a row plays Eldar, unsurprisingly. Also, with that number of starcannon shots, mathematical probability will kick in seriously, and 'bad luck' will be averaged out.
I think it's possible, though I've never really tried to as I don't have the models, to create a fast, hard-hitting eldar army only backed up by huge guns. But then it'd probably lose.
 

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Slave to the flesh
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That list is a tournament list plain and simple. Using it in a freindly game would be seriously questionable but taking it to a tournament most people wouldn't really bat an eyelid.

The list would cetainly play like an eldar army should but it is so extreme little could touch it, I suppose a necron list could fight that just because of WBB.

The starcannon is just too great a weapon, yes it shows how the eldar list is broken but it doesn't mean the army can't work. The eldar list doesn't work because half of it is great while the other half is too costly for what it does but I digress.

Its an extreme list that little could touch due to the vyper's CTM, without it the list would be far more managable.
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
agreed.

it's just the fact that the starcannon is such a powerful weapon that makes the list horrible.

and because its so cheap to put a starcannon on a vyper when compared with your other overpriced fast attack units, its just................savage.
 

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27 star cannon shots,

as a space marine, armoured comapny and grey knights player should i be worried?!

and can they take out tanks?

so i tkae it that the star cannon is great yes? But surely a close combat army would just close in and get into combat so that you can't shoot them?
 

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Well with 27 shots a turn, a significant protion will be blasted away anyways and most of those starcannons being mounted on vypers, which are vehicles they can just fly away out of combat and shoot you again, besides then you're gonna get assualted back by those wraithlords and avatar :blush:
 

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no i mean, assualt the guardians, not the vypers

besides, with my armoured company i could just drop about 10 pie plates on them a turn. I think that the vypers would be a bit fragile to stand that.
 

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AC id about the only list that is invincible unless you gear up to fight it. That Eldar list would own most armies, there are very few fast enough or reilient enough to take it on and win.

An IG army maxed out on heavy weapon teams and leman russ could do it, as well as a necron list (ooh, DS a monolith).

Space marines (and chaos) would fear that list like no other, only Tau put out that amount of firepower (less of which is as good as a starcannon).

The short answer is that starcannon= cheese at the moment (its a bit like SM landspeeder rape, too cheap for what it does).
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
armoured company? as in, the army list hideously unbalanced and hardcore?

enough starcannons will do an AV12 tank. there are three brightlances in the list you may have missed.

you could assault the guardians, it's true. but there are 30 guardians on each flank. you get into combat with a storm squad and i'll usually be going first with 40 attacks. and even then you're ignoring the huge threat in the middle of the board.

the_outsider is right. there are very few specialised armies that could take it.
 

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Brightlances are good, but hows 4 battle cannon shots per turn? plus at least 2 basilisks (indirect fire and all), even that eldar list will start to crumble after that just because of the sheer range of the weaponry.

It actually quite possible to build a siam-hann list that would destroy the AC by turn 2 (mobile brightlances, hmmm..).
 

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Yeah, your're right about the AC list. All the vehicles could be dealt with by such high strength attacks, as could the guardians. The idirect fire also means the old tactic of hiding behind trees and simply using the vypers as hw platforms wouldn't work. The eldar don't have much that would cut down swarms of guard either - no scatter lasers or night spinners.
 

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and how would that fare against Dark Eldar. You might get in about 2 turns of shooting before they are on you and your vypers are in combat with a wych squad.

of course, im not really paying attention to the finer points, just saying that in theory a DE army could take it. I think (don't hold me to that if i am wrong!)
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
depends who gets first turn. the speed of the dark eldar armywould scare me if i was playing with that list. but if i'm in combat, my vypers can bugger off 24 inches across the board and leave all those witches to play with 3 monstrous creatures.
 

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If you think you can hide 6 vypers behind 3 wraithlords you are living in cloud cuckoo land - no offense, the list is idealistic, it has some resilance because of the troops and the wraithlords, but 6 vypers at around 100 points each is easey meat.

Your 18 star cannon shots will, on average, kill about 6 marines per turn, that is 90 points, so in 6 turns, if he sits there and does nothing, 600 points of vyper will fail to kill an equivalent point of marines, because your vypers are moving out and back they are not going to be moving fast, his units on his flanks can hit them and take them appart
 
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