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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
i kinda posted this in the army lists forum but i think it might be better suited here.

i've seen a lot of guys who say this list can't be beaten or that list can't be beaten and usually they can be smacked with an equally unbalanced list. however, i was playing against a friend with nids today. his synapse creatures were the hive tyrant and 3 squads of warriors. one warrior squad was a close combat squad, the others shooting. in order to stop me killing all his synapse creatures, he hid two squads of warriors behind the four carnifexs he has on the board. monstrous creatures block los (obviously).

what is stopping an eldar player using a list that contains 3 wraithlords, an avatar and three full squads of vypers with starcannons and ctm? yes it's cheesy and wrong and all that "fairness" entails, but you turn up to tournaments with that and no-one will touch you. 27 starcannon shots a turn and to get to them you have to kill 4 monstrous creatures. AND the whole thing adds up to 1000 points pretty much, leaving (as we usually play 2k) a lot of points to pour into troops and elites.

if you turned up to a GT with this army, is there any way it's going to be beaten? thoughts? does it prove that however much we moan, our list is broken?
 

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Slave to the flesh
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Yeah, it probably proves the list is broken.

That is a real powergaming list, I'm not sure what would really stand up to it, you would have difficulty against necrons. A necron army (at 2k) with a monolith and c'tan (I prefer the deciever), 30 warriors,a tooled up lord, 7 destroyers and a couple of tomb spyders could give that list a run for its money.
 

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Favored of Tzeentch
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The ultimate tournament list is a list that is so balanced that is has as good a chance against any army out there. I made an USF tourney list a while ago, and I have to say that it was absoluteley awesome. I could as well post it here for you to see, this is IMO the best tourney list I have ever written:

Ulthwé Strike Force, 1700 pts

HQ:

Spear of Khaine; 189pts (Webway)
Avatar
Warlock; Witchblade, Shuriken pistol, Waystone, Enhance
Warlock; Witchblade, Shuriken pistol, Destructor

Seer Council; 273 pts
Farseer; Runes of Witnessing, Close combat weapon, Shuriken pistol, Fortune, Wraithgate
Farseer; Runes of Witnessing, Close combat weapon, Shuriken pistol, Mind War, Guide
Warlock; Close combat weapon, Shuriken pistol, Augment
Warlock; Close combat weapon, Shuriken pistol, Augment
Warlock; Close combat weapon, Shuriken pistol, Enhance
Warlock; Close combat weapon, Shuriken pistol, Embolden


Elite:

#7 Howling Banshees; 149 pts (Webway)
#1 Exarch w. Executioner

Troops:

#10 Black Guardian Defender Squad; 163 pts
#1 Warlock w. CCW, Shuriken Pistol, Conceal
#2 Crewmen; Starcannon

#10 Black Guardian Defender Squad; 163 pts
#1 Warlock w. CCW, Shuriken Pistol, Conceal
#2 Crewmen; Starcannon

#10 Black Guardian Defender Squad; 108 pts (Webway)
#1 Warlock w. CCW, Shuriken Pistol, Destructor

#12 Black Guardian Storm Squad; 146 pts (Webway)
#1 Warlock w. Witchblade, Shuriken Pistol, Enhance
2 Fusion guns

Fast Attack:

#1 Black Guardian Vyper; 75 pts
Bright Lance

#1 Black Guardian Vyper; 75 pts
Bright Lance

#3 Black Guardian Jetbike Squad; 194 pts (Webway)
#1 Jetbike Warlock w. Singing spear, Destructor
1 Shuriken Cannon

Heavy Support:

Black Guardian Support Battery; 50 pts
1 Distort Cannon, 2 Crewmen

#1 Black Guardian War Walker; 115 pts (Webway)
2 Brightlances


By the way, The_Outsider, did you get your username from the novell by H.P. Lovecraft with the same name?
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
even with all the vypers hiding behind the creatures?

i've never played necrons so i wouldn't know if they could churn out the sort of damage to kill 3 wraithlords and an avatar in one to two turns
 

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Slave to the flesh
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No, I based it on one of the last four c'tan (nightbringer,deceiver,void dragon,outsider).

That necron list isn't quite 2000 points. The deciever will rip the wraithlords and avatar apart without breaking a sweat, will he still gets a save from their attacks.

The vypers aren't too much of a problem, a round of shooting from the warriors (or destroyers) and ka-boom.
 

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theriddles said:
even with all the vypers hiding behind the creatures?
Then the Vypers can't shoot.

i've never played necrons so i wouldn't know if they could churn out the sort of damage to kill 3 wraithlords and an avatar in one to two turns
The Avatar is easy, with his poor save and only T6. The Wraithlords might be a problem unless the Necrons are using a Monolith (Particle Whip) or a bunch of Heavy Destroyers.
 

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The_Outsider said:
Yeah, it probably proves the list is broken.

That is a real powergaming list, I'm not sure what would really stand up to it, you would have difficulty against necrons. A necron army (at 2k) with a monolith and c'tan (I prefer the deciever), 30 warriors,a tooled up lord, 7 destroyers and a couple of tomb spyders could give that list a run for its money.
There would be trouble against 'crons, but not these 'crons. Start quite a ways back, vypers pop up and wipe out all the destroyers wraithlords accounts for 1 or 2 warriors. Next turn vypers account for half the warriors, wraithlords a couple more. Half those get up. Third turn Deciever gets into hand to hand with 3 wraithlords and an avatar. By the fourth turn the 'crons should phase out.
 

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Ostsol said:
Then the Vypers can't shoot.
The vypers have CTMs.

The Avatar is easy, with his poor save and only T6. The Wraithlords might be a problem unless the Necrons are using a Monolith (Particle Whip) or a bunch of Heavy Destroyers.
A warrior heavy necron force might be a problem using what you mentioned, but remember any 'cron can hurt anything.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
The_Outsider said:
Yeah, it probably proves the list is broken.

That is a real powergaming list, I'm not sure what would really stand up to it, you would have difficulty against necrons. A necron army (at 2k) with a monolith and c'tan (I prefer the deciever), 30 warriors,a tooled up lord, 7 destroyers and a couple of tomb spyders could give that list a run for its money.

i've looked at the stats and things. if the eldar get first turn, barring some very bad dice rolls and poor target selection, i don't see the destroyers having enough firepower left.

broken list dudes. broken list...
 

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All you'd have to do is mount the wraithlords on the 60mm bases that tyranid monstrous creatures get, and it would work perfect. Maybe splay their legs out a bit to make them look like they're occupying the space.

You might have trouble hiding 9 vypers behind a line of 3 WL and an Avatar without getting bigger bases. Plus, you may as well get the bigger bases if you're going to run this army anyways, so you can be even more extra cheddar about it.

Better yet: how about exploiting a line of wraithlord/avatar and terrain to hide a bunch of vypers AND a few falcons? Now you're talking firepower...and you could even give the falcons EML because they wouldn't have to move far to get to shoot both weapons, and could stay behind the vypers and still get to shoot.

Certainly sounds broken to me. But not any more broken than the three ork battlewagons or line of rhinos or multiple landraider lists out there. I think that's about as "broken" as you can get with 4th edition, actually.
 
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