[RoughWaves]

Yeah, not too sure how to title the thread. Here's the situation.

A unit of DA bikes is 6" from a weak but large CC unit. The DA wants to charge, and is afraid that his torrent of rapid weapons fire will annihilate the unit before he can assault.

So this turns into 2 questions:

1) Can you choose to fire with only a portion of a unit, leaving the rest of the models inn the unit to pick their nose and watch?

2) After moving, within 12" of your target, can you shoot just once?


Oh, and for good measure, when measuring the range of a turret mounted weapon, where do you measure from?

 

[InquisitorAffe]

1) yes, you can choose to have some models fire and some not, but you have to declare how many up front. No going one at a time until you've killed just enough.

2) an argument for the ages. In the special case of bikers, I would say yes, as their rule explicitly states they are allowed to fire once even if they moved. For infantry... well, yeah, do a searchy on it =)

Range is measured from the muzzle of the gun as per main rulebook FAQ.

 

[kore]

1) Can you choose to fire with only a portion of a unit, leaving the rest of the models inn the unit to pick their nose and watch?

Yes.

2) After moving, within 12" of your target, can you shoot just once?

Yes. As IA pointed out, this isn't an issue for Bikers. To expound on this concerning Infantry, for them to only fire once after moving would imply they are firing at maximum range for an RF weapon. By the implication I would say they cannot forego the second shot if they moved. But to argue this may be pointless as you can choose who fires, in which case you could just have half your Infantry fire their weapons. Am I going off-topic? 0:

 

[Moglun]

Yes. As IA pointed out, this isn't an issue for Bikers. To expound on this concerning Infantry, for them to only fire once after moving would imply they are firing at maximum range for an RF weapon. By the implication I would say they cannot forego the second shot if they moved. But to argue this may be pointless as you can choose who fires, in which case you could just have half your Infantry fire their weapons. Am I going off-topic? 0:

Regarding infantry:
It would still make a difference when using things like plasma... two plasma weapons firing once is different from one plasma weapon firing twice.

To look at the question from another angle, can a pistol which remains stationary fire once instead of twice? If not, then a pistol which remained stationary cannot charge. If a stationary plasma weapon overheats in the forest after firing twice and the model using it dies, can the rest of the unit charge? Etc...

It's kind of an ugly situation. Personally, I recommend reaching a consensus with your opponent as to how you would prefer to play it before starting the game.

 

[Splata]

1)

Range is measured from the muzzle of the gun as per main rulebook FAQ.

I'm not so sure on that, these are not vehicle models and as a result the measurement is made from the base of the model in question

 

[Exarch Thomo]

If you take a page out of the eldar codex then the range is measured from the gunners because it explicitly states that the anti-grav turret is only their to remind everyone that the unit has a heavy weapon.
Could this be the way things are heading?

 

[tarzen]

Yeah, not too sure how to title the thread. Here's the situation.

A unit of DA bikes is 6" from a weak but large CC unit. The DA wants to charge, and is afraid that his torrent of rapid weapons fire will annihilate the unit before he can assault.

So this turns into 2 questions:

1) Can you choose to fire with only a portion of a unit, leaving the rest of the models inn the unit to pick their nose and watch?

of course. First part of the shooting section says each model selects individally whether or not to fire, but all dice MUST be rolled at once.

2) After moving, within 12" of your target, can you shoot just once?

as it sits currently, there are arguements for allowing it. Talk it out pregame, but strictly RAW, yes, yes you may.

Oh, and for good measure, when measuring the range of a turret mounted weapon, where do you measure from?

Bikes and ALL other NON vehicles measure from closest base edge to closest base edge. VEHICLES follow a seperate set of rules, outlined in the FAQ.

Any other questions we can help with?

 

[Bugs_n_Orks]

Q. When a stationary firing unit targets an enemy unit
and only some of the firing unit’s rapid fire weapons fall
in the 12" range, what happens?

A. Solve them separately, as above. All firing models
within 12" fire two shots (these shots can only hit
members of the target unit within 12"). The firing models
outside 12" fire a single shot (these can hit all members
of the target unit within 24"). It is more practical to
resolve the closest shots completely first (including
removing casualties), and then resolve the long range
ones.

So stationary infantry don't really have a choice. If the plasma gun is within 12" it must fire twice.

As for bikes, I'm unfamiliar with the wording for them. If they count as stationary when firing weapons mounted on the bike than I'd say that they must fire twice if within 12". If the wording says something else then there's room to argue for being able to choose, but I'd talk about it with your opponent beforehand to avoid trouble during the game.

 

[tarzen]

So stationary infantry don't really have a choice. If the plasma gun is within 12" it must fire twice.

As for bikes, I'm unfamiliar with the wording for them. If they count as stationary when firing weapons mounted on the bike than I'd say that they must fire twice if within 12". If the wording says something else then there's room to argue for being able to choose, but I'd talk about it with your opponent beforehand to avoid trouble during the game.

actually, if you look at the exact wording of RF weapons, you MAY fire twice up to 12", or once up to 24". Since the listing of RF weapons is not RF2, as per the weapon type rules, you don't need to fire all shots (unlike an assault 3 weapon). Again, it's a matter that as it sits, GW still allows it, but "suggests" that you fire twice.

 

[Bugs_n_Orks]

I see what you're saying.



Not quite RAW related, but I absolutely hate the following situation.

me (playing tyranids or orks)
opponent (space marines or chaos)

opponent:"my squad will stay stationary and fire at your unit. The plasma guns will each fire only 1 shot, and all the bolters will fire as many shots as they can."

To me this is not in keeping with GW's general "everyone in a unit does the same thing" stance. I feel that if you're going to pick you should have to pick for everyone (and anyone who tries to fire twice while more than 12" away wastes their shots), or if you're going to fire at max capacity everyone should fire at max capacity (and those plasma gunners can fry their little fingers off).

Though I concede that this is more a "Spirit of the Rules" than a "Letter of the Rules" arguement.

 

[tarzen]

I agree completely about how the intent on this one should be (as it's one of the few where the game designer came out and said "this is the intent"), but sadly they are too lazy to put it in pdf form (they are GW after all).

Cheers!

ps, an option fluff wise is just have 1/2 the marines fire 2 times while the plasma guys take staedy aim shots...yeah, fluff works in all things (even though it can be argued that fluffwise they would let loose with everything they had, battle damage be damned)

 

[RoughWaves]

Yeah, fluff wise I would have a hard time believing that you could restrain your unit from firing everything its got point blank at the enemy in order to assure that the unit will still be able to assault in the next phase. They'll write you off as insane(what the hell is the assault phase? 6 inches? He's lost it) and try and kil the enemy as soon as possible.


When it comes down to the game though, I've just allowed it, cause its not clear one way or another and I'd just be being a jerk arguing for the hell of it.

Some people don't realise how much more fun a game is if you aren't arguing all the time.

 

[Hasten]

Yeah, fluff wise I would have a hard time believing that you could restrain your unit from firing everything its got point blank at the enemy in order to assure that the unit will still be able to assault in the next phase. They'll write you off as insane(what the hell is the assault phase? 6 inches? He's lost it) and try and kil the enemy as soon as possible.

On the other hand, though, an individual soldier might hold back if he knew the gun he was firing was likely to explode in his hands . But of course, these arguments tend to go 'round in circles. Regarding the assault phase thing, I'm pretty sure that the 'firing at point blank range' on the way into combat is supposed to be represented by the charging bonus.

-H

 

[sodcactus]

Originally Posted by RoughWaves
1) Can you choose to fire with only a portion of a unit, leaving the rest of the models inn the unit to pick their nose and watch?

Yes.

I looked through the rulebook but couldn't find the page number where they state that it's possible. Could anyone please enlighten me where I can find this in writing?

 

[tarzen]

I looked through the rulebook but couldn't find the page number where they state that it's possible. Could anyone please enlighten me where I can find this in writing?

page 29. page 28 explains that only weapons with a number next to their type must fire to full effect.