Librarium Online Forums banner

Status
Not open for further replies.
1 - 20 of 24 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
4 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
How are we expected to beat Eldar. I played against my friend yesterday, between his Fire Prism, multiple bright lances and star cannons, I was mowed down before I got to him. My stealers were actually able to get onto his Wraithlord, but guess what! w/o the str. upgrade it's impossible to hurt it.

Thanks for any tips. I've only been playing for about 2 weeks.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,961 Posts
Eldar are difficult to beat. They can outshoot us (of course), and they can out-assault us (with striking scorpions). You have to take advantage of your opponent's mistakes.

It would be very useful to know what your army list looks like, and what exactly your opponent used.

Generally, you need big bugs with venom cannons in order to deal with pesky skimmers which you can hardly catch in close combat. Biovores are great against eldar. Be sure to have some hormagaunts, these have a longer charge range than gurdians can shoot (6" move+12" weapon range).

Just a note, your genestealers *could* have hurt that wraithlord, even without that strength upgrade. With their rending claws they just need three sixes at the to hit rolls and the WL is gone - with their rending claws they can wound absolutely anything (a monolith being the only exception), completely bypassing the toughness with these special hits.

jwu
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
175 Posts
As always, use terrain to your advantage. You can move through it better (for the most part) and they can't shoot through it.

My first game against Eldar I got slaughtered because I let him set up the board and, naturally, he set it up to his advantage.

Biovores are also a good choice. Poison mines are good for their ability to take out war walkers (which are a favorite of my Eldar friend), and they have a decent, non-LOS attack.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
130 Posts
also, eldar dont have that many blast template weapons, so try running your swarm in a column down the side of board, forcing him to move the bulk of his forces to one side also...

with him trying to move over, you should serve your eldar with a sprinkling of Lictor in the middle (make him a bit more scared to run about the place), pepper the middle with poison mines (maybe shoot at dense units near your column/spearhead formation to 'cover' your attack with spore mines) and with a bit of luck things should go your way...

just make sure to have a large rending brood for any big things like a wraithlord or seer council.. also, try not to land within shooting range of a phat guardian squad without cover, even though this is common sense and goes without saying, many people underestimate large guardian squad's shooting ability... i know i have once or twice :p

anyway good luck, do the hive mind proud :)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
163 Posts
if he uses heavy antigrav platforms a unit of 12-16 gargoyles deepstriking on there heads will take a chunk out of his fire power.
or a second hq choice of tyrant guard to protect a carnifex with a strangler will mess up grav tanks and poek holes in foot units.
but no matter what they have FoF so count on CC to happen fast if you can hide behind and in terrain.



XG
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,164 Posts
im an ulthwe player and happened to wander intop nid country and so ill lend a little advice.

eldar's beiggest weakness is their toughness, and str. thats why they dont like combat and rely on big things for combat. i dont knwo much about bugs but i belive that the lil uns can assult 12 or yu can give em upgrade to assult 12. do that. that way u can stayt away from the 12 catapults(nids worse enemy, next to flmaers) and then still be able to assult from outside or that 12 range. u will easily rip apart a guardian squad since they ahve low armor.

for writhlords, vemon cannons will hurt. they are str 10 so u wound on a 2 and no saves. field 2 and just pummelt he writhlords until they go down. the wriathlrods weakness is no inv save so anything thats ap 1 or 2 will hurt it. and since we rely so much on writhlords for combat that will severly crippple our chances

as for seer coucils(which are awesome) throw huge amounts of lil 'uns at it and allt he re rollable 4+inv saves wont dot hem any good. also the seer coucil has VERY few attacks. on the charge they get 3 a piece thats onyl like 15 attacks, compared to yur 30. plus their witchblades arent power weapons, onyl wound on a 2+ and what help is that against guants.

i hope this helps and good luck.

oh i forgot, watch out for 3 war walkers with 6 scatter lasers/star cannons. thatll put a damper on just about anything,.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
175 Posts
VC's have an AP of 4. An overcharged Warp Blast has an AP of 2, that may have hit you. Some people load their Tyrants up with both.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4 Posts
Discussion Starter · #10 ·
My friend and I are both new to the game, but he tends to take in more money than I, the college student, so he got a far greater selection to play with. I had my Hive Tyrant, with VC, and S. Talons, all possible mutations, Warp Field and Blast for Psychic Powers, and mutated with Wings for the 12" move. In addition to that, I had two units of 6 genestealers with S. Talons, 2 Zoanthropes with Warp Blast, and a Ravener, with a Deathspitter I believe.

He had a Psychic guy of somesort with some throwable lance that triples his strenght, a Fire Prism, a Wraith Lord, two basic troops of 5 each, and a vyper I think, maybe a Falcon too. Can't remember exactly.

Our point totals came out to be around the 670 area if I remember correctly, his might have been a little higher.

In response to the answer of the Wraith Lord. From my impression of rending claws, if it hits on a 6, they get no armor save, and if against vehicles you get an extra d6 for armor penetration. A wraith lords toughness is 8, a genestealers strength is 4. 4S vs. 4T = 4 to wound. 4S vs. 5T = 5 to wound. 4S vs. 6 or 7T = 6 to wound. 4S vs. 8T = 7 to wound (impossible on a d6). Rending claws does nothing to bring down a units toughness that I'm aware of. Please correct me if I'm wrong.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,961 Posts
That throwable lance is a singing spear. Note that it does not use that tripled strength against tyranids (only against vehicles, and we have none). This makes a difference against multi wound bugs, which otherwise would be instakilled.

Scything talons are not worth the points on genestealers. A higher number of cheaper stealers is clearly superior.

Concerning the rending claws, you oversaw a nice little detail of their rules:
Those attacks which don't allow an armour save also wound automatically! The target's toughness is entirely ignored by these special attacks. Basically, unless the target has an invulnerable save, each roll to hit of '6' results in the loss of one wound.
Three sixes at the to hit rolls against the WL and it's gone.

Just to be sure, also re-read their effect on vehicles. It's not the to hit roll that matters when you attack vehicles and you want to take advantage of their special rule.

jwu
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
163 Posts
for the 16 points you pay each modle genestealers are perfect i neverbother to mod them. well sometimes implant in im goign to be fighting someone els with big wound characters.


XG
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
27 Posts
give your genestealers scything talons. basicly, without them, genestealers have 2 attacks. so, you need 3 on average per 6. this is 48 points. with scything talons, you only need 2 and thats 44 points. this small difference adds up over the 30-35 genestealers i normally use. however, where 2 will do the job of 3, you will have less so every one killed will hurt more.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,961 Posts
Do *not* give them scything talons!

Yes, with scything talons you a get slightly better punch per point, 109% of a normal stealer's punch, to be precise.

But...

You have less models on the table at equal points, so you get less charge bonus attacks on the charge. You are also more vulnerable to any kind of damage. A stealer with scythes still dies as easily as one without, but it's more expensive.
So at equal points you can kill 9% more of your enemies, but with each of their attacks they kill 37.5% more points of your stealers compared to non-talon stealers. If i include the reduced punch due to the higher number of casualties, then in average they still kill 34.3% more points of stealers than they would kill of stealers without scythes. I didn't even include the reduced charge bonus attacks in that math, but stealers without scythes are clearly superior.

I did some more math, in order to beat 50 marines in close combat you need 432pts of stealers without talons. I used a high number of marines in order to get a very precise result.
You however would need 484pts of stealers with scythes. If the cheaper stealers are not allowed to benefit of their higher number of charge bonus attacks, then the result would be even more in their favour.

jwu
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
27 Posts
very impressive. i never thought of it like that. i do that percent stuff normally but never bothered with the old 'stealers as i thought it was obvious. ive given them scything talons for years and always thought they were good but you have converted me. the only person i have anytrouble with is a blood angle player where we come off about 50/50. next time i verse him ill take your advice and get back to you.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
379 Posts
To the guy who got Warp Field on his Tyrant - why did you do that? Or is there a rule I am missing?

I thought you get 1 save only, you have to choose which. When biomodding your Tyrant, Armor save of 2+ costs 15 pts, Warp field costs 25?

Or am I missing something? Can you stack them? That would indeed rock.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
163 Posts
no matter how many saves you get you only roll 1. warp field take up a psychic power slot not a biomorph slot thats why it costs more.


XG
 
1 - 20 of 24 Posts
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top