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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Okay, I try to bring this topic up when I post my army lists, but maybe here is a better place for the discussion?

If you bounce around this board you'll see tons of posts that say the same type of stuff:
"Eldar units are fragile and need support to win their objective"
"Eldar units are highly specialized and need to work in concert"
"Eldar are an unforgiving army and need to be used carefully or else they fall apart."

Etc, etc.

Often if its a unit specific thread, like the warp spider one, people will say "use shining spears with warp spiders."

But what other combinations work well for people? How do people support fire dragons, swooping hawks, jetbikes, war walkers, pathfinders and dire avengers (to name a few). What are your favorite tactical tricks, and what units do you use together to work in concert?

Thanks!
 

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I will just run down a few of my favorite unit support styles for you.

1. Fire Dragons- I like to run a squad of 6 Dragons in a Falcon. I swing the Falcon around the flank of my opponent, taking down heavy infantry with its guns(I keep my Dragon in my Starcannon Falcon, the other two have Scatter Lasers). I follow the Falcon with my Shining Spears. I will then drop the Dragons next to either a transport, or something like a squad of Terminators or Nobz. The Falcon fires first, hopefully destroying the transport, (if it doesn't, I almost always have something else that can) or drops a few models. Then the Dragons fire, and seem to kill about 3 models on avg. I then either charge with the Spears, or, if they are not in range, let my Dragons take a charge, so the spears can charge next turn. That always makes short work of the remaining units, and most often leaves you in position to assault again, and maybe even pop some more armor, if your Dragons lived, which they sometimes do.

2. Dire Avengers-I often run my Avengers behind a squad of Guardians, as 20 Guardians plus ten avengers blade storming drop most units. If they don't the Guardians take the charge, as they are cheap, and the Avengers live to fight another day.

3. Reapers and Striking Scorpions- This is pretty simple. I love to run Dark Reapers in tandem with the Scorpions, as the Reapers, if well positioned, can really soften up whatever the Scorpions are charging.

4. Rangers- I think Rangers are just about my favorite unit. I often move get two squads of 8 Pathfinders in a forward position, and in cover that will grant at LEAST a 3+ save with their bonus, and I cover them with Harlequins. The Rangers can weaken assaulting units, or pin the incoming foe. With the Harlequins ability to deal with terrain, They can either prevent the Rangers from being charged, by charging the enemy first, or, if your opponent if paying only slight attention to the Rangers as the pop his MEQs left and right, they can move out and go hunting, since they are in a forward position with the Rangers anyways.
 

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I agree with the dire avengers behind a screen of guardians. For some reason your opponents just seem to fail more target priority checks when the squad in front is guardians. If I do a footsloggin list, I run 2 squads of 12 guardians with a warlock with conceal, and 2 bladestorming squads of DAs. with an avatar in the middle, it becomes pretty powerful.

A combination I also put out was prince yriel with 5 warlocks (1 with enhance) in a falcon. The squad usually destroys everything it touches. The downside is that your opponent knows that. having them walk lets you cast fortune on them, but doesn't get them there as fast. Both ways have worked for me though.
 

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Just from the top of my head quickly:

Gaurdians w/ Warlock + Wraithlord

The squad can protect the Wraithlord from wraithsight whilst the Wraithlord handles opposing vehicles that may target the Gaurdians. Both can ward off infantry with flamers and shuriken fire and the Wraithlord can suppress strength 4 or lower combat troops from reaching the Gaurdians.

Dire Avengers + Farseer w/ Eldritch storm and Doom

Dire avangers are all round but for a Farseer that does not need LoS to deal damage they can prove to be a useful retinue. Farseer can Doom and Eldritch storm and Dire Avengers can hook round from some terrain to use Doom to their advanatage or act as a threatening unit from advancing enemy squads. Note Guide is meh to a squad that already has a decent Ballistic skill.

Jetbikes w/ Warlock with Destructor and Singing Spear

Very all round squad that is fast and can hit relatively hard. Excellend support for other fast moving units like Warp Spiders and Swooping Hawks. But in essence they funtion by themselves as harrasement. Nice troops choice for low cost.

Rangers

In essence they are a stand alone unit but other infiltrator, scout and fast moving units can support them and protect them from being ambushed. Gaurdian Support Platforms and Rangers work well, both can pin and deal vast amounts of damage from lone range. Can make a nice base point to fall back to if things go wrong.

Shining Spears + Autarach

Commonly seen, Shining a hit hard but has little attacks, Auatarch has many attacks but is only a single model.....add them together and you've got a fearsome squadron. Remember they don't have to assault so they can be combined with Warp Spiders and Jetbikes and fire their shuriken catapults for fast moving harrasement before a final blow is dealt.



All these can be found in the tactica link under my signiture in more detail...
 

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Play upon this flute, I do beseach you, tis as easy as lieing

(anyone get the quote?)

what you are is at the very heart of playing eldar and is linked and interwoven back and forth, I could be here all day trying to answer it and still not finish, some stuff for example, that can and happily has had use going for hours: the first poster dragons in a falcon and spears - the dragon in a facon trick is as old as the hills (well around 15 years old) and frankly is inefficeint, by sticking this lot together you are putting over 600 points of effort into taking out a transport and its crew, your opponent can protect himself from it, it has been argued to death

generally the interactions work on varrious levels, eg, mobile shooty units cmpliment each other, but also for example, if you have wraithlords in your army it is worth taking an avatar to draw fire from them.

The list is also difficult to compile because what works in one army doesnt necessarily work in another, at best you are going to get a string of polarised views that may or may not be good and which may well be very misleading even if true and posted with the best intent

Therefore I would suggest you try and explain the reason for your question and perhaps we can be more helpful?
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
the reason for the question? Well, I'm struggling to use my eldar army well. I know my problem is that I'm not using units together coherently. I just watch them get picked off one at a time, and utterly destroyed because of their low toughness. What I'm not sure of is whether or not my list even has units that work well together in it, or is it a complete mess from the start? I posted an army list in the right spot, but thought topic this would help too (as well as help other new eldar players)

I just wanted to get a sense of what works for people and then try to build it into my own list.

Thanks for the help so far everyone. It's been eye opening, and Cheredanine I'd love to hear more since you sound like a competent eldar player so far.
 

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Sparta!
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It's not just using units in concert to destroy an enemy unit, with eldar a great deal of tactical play comes in with distraction and disruption are also important to remember.
As an example I use Swooping Hawks in almost all my games of 1k and above. Not the most overtly destructive aspect and many overlook them, however they play a key role in distracting my opponent and disrupting his attacks.
Armed with Hawywire grenades they make awesome Tank-hunters and I regularly use them to get rid of my oponents tanks that he left in his back zone. Because they can deepstrike their threat range is rather good, and if your opponent knows about them and keeps a unit back to deal with them then they are already distracting him and disrupting his attack. If he doesn't and they get a charge on a nice juicy tank than they will likely destroy it and also disrupt his plans. The best thing about them is that they are jump infantry with fleet. DS them behind terrain and out of LoS, next turn jump over the terrain and fleet before chargin (an effective range of 18"-24").
So it's not just about using units in tandem, it's also about throwing a spanner in the works and doing the unexpected, and even just distracting your opponent as much as you can. You have to really look at a unit and see what they can be used for - not just their immediately apparent role, but what else they can do. (Final example is I almost never use Fire Dragons to hunt tanks - range is too short to be really effective. Instead I use them to toast high threat units - TMC's, Terminators, Marine Squads etc.)
 

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the reason for the question? I just watch them get picked off one at a time, and utterly destroyed because of their low toughness. .
This is the question and the answer.

Eldar are low toughness. Everytime you opponent roles to wound you are losing. The soluntion is to not get shot at and not get hit in cc.

Not getting shot at
Eldar tanks
runing through or around terrain.
having cheap units take the brunt of shooting

Not getting hit
Eldar have high iniative, kill everything you assault.

All strategies revolve around these ideas. For example:

I like dire avengers with bladestorm and defend ahead of banshees. The Dire avengers bladestorm and kill a bunch take a charge but dont die because of defend, and then the banshees assault and kill everything before the opponent can attack. Then massacre move to put the dire avengers ahead of the banshees.

The point is I suck up shots and attacks with the dire avengers and wipe out a squad before they can attack with the banshees.
 

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movement rates, mix CC with shoot

To get your army to act together I suggest two broad principles:

1. Pair squads (or 3) together that move about the same speed.

2. Back up your shooty units with a CC one, or you can think of it as using your shooty units to soften up an enemy squad for the charge.

I know people will argue you can shoot things to death...I don't have much luck doing that. Even when inflicting a lot of attrition your opponent will eventually get you in CC unless they are especially unlucky (or dumb).

Cheers,

Frank
 

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If you can force your opponents units to target single units and only those units then your golden. Don't ever give your opponent a choice and if you must then make sure every move or attack you make will have a higher benefit than loss. I gladly sacrifice 120 point pathfinder squads to force my opponent into charging them so that my harlequins can attack and flee safley. Pathfinders and Dark Reapers are great in my opinion for this strategy as both of them cant be ignored and will either suck up a rediculous amount of shots or force your opponent into making undesirable attacks. 2 Squads of Pathfinders backed by 2 sqauds of Dark Reapers backed by 2 squads or Harlies has been absurd for me. I've only lost 1 game in 2 RTT's using this tactic ( veiling immortals into harlequins is rough beats... I hate necrons sometimes). Hope this might give you an idea.
 

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Mechanized Leap Frog

The idea here is to get a bladestorming unit of Dire Avengers every turn while protecting them from close combat with a wall of skimmers. The wall is made up of two Falcons (buttressing each end of the wall) and 2-3 Wave Serpents in between (preferrably 3). The first two Wave Serpents each contain a unit of Dire Avengers with Baldestorm, while the third either has a unit of Dire Avengers or Fire Dragons. The center Wave Serpent contains the Dire Avengers that are going to disembark and fire this turn. The Avengers disembark, bladestorm, and the long wall of skimmers in front of them should protect them from being assaulted. It works as sort of a super Fish o' Fury tactic. Next turn, load the Dire Avengers back up, move the wall more than 6" to one side, exchanging the second Dire Avenger unit with the first (so now the other Dire Avenger unit is in the center). Repeat the same process. Arm the Wave Serpents with Bright Lances to take out vehicles that could tank shock the formation. The Falcons either provide extra firepower or soak up AT shots that could be used to take down your Serpents. They can also contain Harlequins to counter assault any units that can get around your wall (bikes, jump infantry, etc). You can have a Farseer on a Jetbike hang out behind the wall as well to Doom the unit that the Avengers are going to shoot.
 
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