[mishari26]

I noticed in the Vampire Counts rule for popping when losing Break tests:

"No armour saves are allowed against these wounds."

So are ward saves allowed against them? (example being a vampire character with a ward save being the last of his unit as it crumbles from CR loss). I checked the VC faq and didn't find a mention of this issue.

There are many instances in the rules where it says "no armor save allowed" but does not mention ward saves, and in those cases we always assumed that ward saves are allowed in this case.

 

[Rork]

Yes. It's what makes the Varghulf and regen bunkers additionally nasty.

 

[mishari26]

interesting!

so Tomb Kings undead aren't allowed ward saves against popping, yet Vampire Counts are? such blatant favoritism issed-off:

 

[Rork]

No, not really. You can't compare TK with the current VC since they're different "generations" - The old VC, the same "generation" as TK, also didn't get wards etc. No doubt TK will follow their example when their new book rolls around.

 

[mishari26]

so, shouldn't current TK players reaonably ask that the same applies to them too? (if a TK player today argues this, would you deny him the ward/regen saves?)

I know it's not R.A.W. (rules as written) but certainly "in the spirit of the rules". (that GW are trying to make wards/regens more effective in all "popping" situations). I know that strictly RAW then what you said is exactly correct.

however when you read the older TK book and how clearly it mentions ward/regen saves, makes you wonder why didn't they make the "newer" VC book more explicit and clearer about ward/regen saves baing still applicable. and being not mentioned in the FAQs as well feels like its an oversight.

 

[Rork]

so, shouldn't current TK players reaonably ask that the same applies to them too? (if a TK player today argues this, would you deny him the ward/regen saves?)

I know it's not R.A.W. (rules as written) but certainly "in the spirit of the rules". (that GW are trying to make wards/regens more effective in all "popping" situations). I know that strictly RAW then what you said is exactly correct.

Possibly, yes. But let's be fair, TK aren't exactly overflowing with regen and ward saves outside of their characters. It's reasonable in your own gaming group to discuss this sort of thing, of course.

however when you read the older TK book and how clearly it mentions ward/regen saves, makes you wonder why didn't they make the "newer" VC book more explicit and clearer about ward/regen saves baing still applicable. and being not mentioned in the FAQs as well feels like its an oversight.

That's a huge can of worms. GW army books are becoming less and less clear (the list of questions for the Skaven FAQ is an army book in itself) - some can be worked out with some thinking, but a lot can't. I hope that the Skaven book will make the designers sit up and actually pay attention to quality control a bit more in future, the potential stupidity of the unclear doomwheel rules should be a wake up call.