[Inquisitor Solexus]

The DH codex is a little vague concerning a couple of weapons. Considering the wording on the Needle Pistol's Armor Penetration rolls (doesn't list a specific Strength, like the old Sniper rifle wording), would a Vindicare's Turbo-Penetrator round get a total of 3D6 + D6 for armor penetration?

 

[impending slaughter]

iirc the turbo round is 3D6 only

 

[mEGALOMANIAC]

The codex isn't vague at all. You cannot take information from one weapon's entry and apply it to another's just because they're similar. The needle pistol gets a pentration of d6 because that's what the entry says. Turbo-Penetrator gets 3d6 because that's what the entry says. They aren't the same weapon, and they aren't even similar weapons.

40K isn't a game where "but they didn't say I couldn't" works. Instead, things have to be explicitly stated. There's no such statement concerning those two weapons sharing any properties.

 

[LordCreampuff]

Exactly. The Turbo Penetrator round is a sniper rifle round anyway. I can't be used in the needle pistol.

I don't know why they even bother giving the needle pistol an armor penetration of 1D6 as the lowest vehicle armor is 8 or 10 (not sure). Both of which are greater than the maximum possible for the needle pistol.

 

[MiketehFox]

They do it because otherwise people would ask silly questions about what the amor penetration of a Neddle pistol is.

Course, they should just say it has no effect on anything with an armor value...

Mike

 

[Inquisitor Solexus]

To clarify:

Note that the wording on Armor Penetration is exactly the same for both the Needle Pistol entry and the Turbo-Penetrator entry, except for the number of dice rolled. It is unlikely that the writers (however crazy those GW guys are) would have written that a Needle Pistol is useless against vehicles in such a roundabout way; they would simply have written, "the Needle Pistol has no effect on vehicles." So, the Needle Pistol entry refers to the effective Strength of the weapon before the normal D6 is added for Armor Penetration (similar to the Sniper Rifle description in the main rulebook). Because the same wording is used later, I assumed that they were again referring to the effective Strength of the weapon before the normal D6 is added for Armor Penetration, giving you a total of 4D6.

I was not suggesting that they shared any kind of similar properties, or that a needle round can be used in the sniper rifle, but that the authors would have used the same phrase twice with the same meaning.

 

[MiketehFox]

errrmmm I don't think so.

When shooting at a Vehicle, you add the strenght of the weapon to the Armor Penetration Roll (Normally D6) so, weapons like the Needle pistol and Sniper Rifles that don't have strenghts just roll the Armor Peneration, 3D6 For a Turbo Penetrator round, 2D6 normally while the Needle Pistol only gets 1D6, thus making it useless vs tanks.

As I read it anyways.

Mike

 

[mEGALOMANIAC]

When shooting at a Vehicle, you add the strenght of the weapon to the Armor Penetration Roll (Normally D6) so, weapons like the Needle pistol and Sniper Rifles that don't have strenghts just roll the Armor Peneration, 3D6 For a Turbo Penetrator round, 2D6 normally while the Needle Pistol only gets 1D6, thus making it useless vs tanks.

As I read it anyways.

I read it the same way.

 

[Grey]

Exactly. The Turbo Penetrator round is a sniper rifle round anyway. I can't be used in the needle pistol.

I don't know why they even bother giving the needle pistol an armor penetration of 1D6 as the lowest vehicle armor is 8 or 10 (not sure). Both of which are greater than the maximum possible for the needle pistol.

9 is the AV on a standard civillian vehicle I believe. I don't believe anything lower is listed except perhaps in extreme cases for terrain.

In friendly games, we often assign AV's to buildings and such, just in case folks want to destroy/knock them down a bit to get a better line of sight or whatever.

I do recall that in one such game, there was some WWII era pup tents on the board (left over from an earlier game of something involving panzers and MG 42s...), and when someone's models were hiding behind them, getting like a 6 cover save, mainly because they couldn't be seen.

Of course they kept rolling 6s until their opponent got cranky and asked what the tents AV was, I said 5. Its a pup tent. So he shelled them with a Vindicator.

So, in friendly games, the needle pistol could damage a pup tent.

Maybe.

 

[tarzen]

As Mike posted, the needler is ineffective vs armour.

Check your rules. You are reading what says armour penetration to simply be the strength value of the equation for armour penetration. This is not correct.

Note, melta bombs (p 72) don't have a strength listed, they merely have 8+2d6 armour pen (of which you could assume there strength is 8, but that's not true since they don't have a strength listing, they just get armour pen). So, they don't roll 8+2d6+d6.