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Drill Sergeant
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10,215 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
Objectives:
Kill Points.

Mission:
Start on the table with 1 troops choice. Everything else is held in reserve.

Set up:
Dawn of War
Board:


Black Templars


140 Emperor's Champion (warlord)
105 Chaplain, jump pack


190 Ironclad, Hk missile x2, Pod
190 Ironclad, Hk missile x2, Pod
180 Ironclad, heavy flamer x2, Pod


245 Tactical Squad x10, plasma gun, lascannon, Vet Sarge/combimelta, lightning claw, Pod
245 Tactical Squad x10, plasma gun, lascannon, Vet Sarge/combimelta, lightning claw, Pod
245 Tactical Squad x10, plasma gun, lascannon, Vet Sarge/combimelta, lightning claw, Pod


125 Storm Talon, TL lascannon, TL assault cannon
125 Storm Talon, TL lascannon, TL assault cannon
210 Assault Squad x10, jump packs, flamer, Vet Sarge/powerfist


2000 points total, 42 infantry, 6 Pods, 2 fliers, 3 Dreadnoughts

Primary plan is standard Pod Assault spearheaded with Ironclads and followed by squadded Tacticals. Champ rides in a late Pod and Chaplain goes with the ASM. Jumpers work better than bikes in the parking lot that's sure to happen, especially if I build a "wall" out of the three Ironclads and their Pods. Secondary plan is keep the Tacticals together in a skirmish line and use their empty Pods to build a funnel into the kill zone. Talons provide fire support and the Crusader rule provides post-Drop mobility and sweeping advance support.
VS




Task Force Reliquiae (Imperial Guard/Tempestus Scions) - 1999 points


Cadian CAD Detachment: 1670 points


Commissar Lord Lazarus Glass (Warlord)
-Celeritas - Master-Crafted Chainsword. Additionally, when in a challenge, Commissar Lord has a 4+ invulnerable. For every successful save during a challenge, the opposing model takes one automatic hit from Celeritas with the Rending rule, even if the Commissar Lord dies in that round.
-Power fist
100

Infantry Platoon -
PCS
-Mortar

Infantry Squads x 3 (combined)
-Power Axes x 3
-Grenade Launchers x 3

245
Infantry Platoon -
-Platoon Command Squad
-Lascannon
-Vox-caster

Infantry Squads x 3 (combined)
-Commissar
-Vox-caster
-Lascannons x 3
300

Infantry Platoon -
-Platoon Command Squad
-Lascannon
-Vox-caster
-Infantry Squads x 3 (combined)
-Commissar
-Vox-caster
-Lascannons x 3
300

Vendetta

Vendetta

Wyvern Battery -
-Two Wyverns
130

Basilisk Battery
-One Basilisk
Wyvern Battery -
-Two Wyverns
130


Tempestus Scions Allies: 329 points
Tempestus Command Squad
-Meltaguns x 4
125
Tempestus Scions x 6
-Meltaguns x 2
102
Tempestus Scions x 6
-Meltaguns x 2
102


Cadian Warlord Traits:
1. Warlord (and therefore unit) have Zealot.
2. +2 BS for Warlord, +1 BS for unit.
3. Once per game, Warlord can make an Artillery Bombardment like a Master of Ordnance (unlimited range (Line of Sight needed), Strength 9 AP 3 Large Blast, scatters 3D6", only 2D6" if a Hit is rolled)
4. Friendly units in the Cadian detachment don't take Morale tests due to suffering 25% casualties from shooting if within 12" of Warlord.
5. Commissar Lord has Voice of Command (can give IG orders).
6. Warlord must always issue and accept challenges. Friendly characters in this detachment re-roll failed To Hit and To Wound rolls in a challenge.

 

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I don't think this could have been a better match up for the templars. With the drop pod assault rule half their army will be down turn one, whilst the guard languish in reserve. If they get first turn this could be a case of a one shot kill game over.

If the templars go first (or second for that matter...reserves are turn 2 unless special rules say otherwise right?) the guard start with one unit. The heavy flamer dread and 2 units of marines come down turn one and just go to town with their guns making a mess of that squad.
 

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2,709 Posts
I agree. The mission parameters favour the Templars in a good way both in deployment and in the number of kill points available. My vote is therefore with Black Templars.
 

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Sparta!
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1,438 Posts
I don't know - it's a troop choice - not a unit. The way the guard platoons work, that's a PC squad + either a single blob of 31 or three separate ten man units in a dispersed deployment spread - so it won't be an auto-win for the SM's after destroying a single squad.

What it comes down to after that is the reserve rolls, and who can get the benefit out of the kill points - and depending on how the guard deploy, that's a big variation. That said, the guard do have the advantage of range, firepower and numbers. With the initial alpha-strike being largely negated by the mission parameters, it means the SM need to gamble on where to deepstrike - which can give the guard some advantage when arriving from Reserves. They also have a lot of lascannons and meltas, and the Basilisk and 4 Wyverns can do a number on the marines...

The more I think about it, the more I'm leaning towards the guard - I think the reserves might actually play in their favour a bit more with this mission - allowing them to react (to a degree) to the SM deepstriking.

I'm going to say Guard, but only by a whisker.
 

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If they start as a blob of 31 the marines only need to kill 8 to force a panic check. With bolters and a heavy flamer massed fire that wont be difficult. One failed leadership test and that guard unit could be scrambling for the board edge sharpish!

Alternatively if you start in 3 10 man units you're now worried about directing fire. If you crack your lascannon shots at the dread that means the lasguns can;t target the marines. If you leave the marines alone that's a hell of a lot of firepower you are taking in return and I don't see a squad surviving. Again only 3 casualties needed in each 10 man unit to force a morale check.

If the marines go first this is a massacre. The guard need first turn to try and manouvere what they have out of easy kill range of the marines, taking advantage of the terrain. Reardless of what they do on the marines turn it will be 1 guard unit vs 4 marine units. Unlucky reserve rolls on turn 2 will be the guaranteed death of the guard. Throw in the proximity the marines will have to the guard it negates the wyverns, they simply cannot risk firing that lose to their own troops.

I don't know - it's a troop choice - not a unit. The way the guard platoons work, that's a PC squad + either a single blob of 31 or three separate ten man units in a dispersed deployment spread - so it won't be an auto-win for the SM's after destroying a single squad.

What it comes down to after that is the reserve rolls, and who can get the benefit out of the kill points - and depending on how the guard deploy, that's a big variation. That said, the guard do have the advantage of range, firepower and numbers. With the initial alpha-strike being largely negated by the mission parameters, it means the SM need to gamble on where to deepstrike - which can give the guard some advantage when arriving from Reserves. They also have a lot of lascannons and meltas, and the Basilisk and 4 Wyverns can do a number on the marines...

The more I think about it, the more I'm leaning towards the guard - I think the reserves might actually play in their favour a bit more with this mission - allowing them to react (to a degree) to the SM deepstriking.

I'm going to say Guard, but only by a whisker.
 

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Sparta!
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1,438 Posts
Fire control is the same problem whether it's 3 x 10 man units or a single 30 man unit - either way somethings going to be wasted. The point of starting that first platoon spread out in separate squads is the only to make sure there is a turn two - even with SM units deepstriking and the above average chance of causing whatever they are targeting to flee/die - it's still 3 units (SM) vs 4 (guard) - which means that the game will continue. Against 3 pods coming down, the guard can't manoeuvre out of kill range , but they can spread out, make sure they all can't be hit and draw a drop pod away from the board edge - sacrificing a unit of guardsmen to get a firing solution isn't a big deal...but blobbing that first squad together makes absolutely no sense and practically gives the game to your opponent.

Unlucky reserve rolls (or any other rolls for that matter) can be the death of any army, so I'm not even bothering to take that into consideration to be honest. Honestly, I can see that it can go either way, although, that said 40 marines can be rather tough to chew through. Still, I've already made my vote and ít wouldn't be fair to change it now
 
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