[Caluin]

Please see this thread on how to participate in these games. I want to stress to everyone that the mission means everything. He who stands the best way to score Victory Points should be the winner.

Mission Type - Cleanse

Mission Level - Gamma

Special Rules - Infiltration, Deep Strike, Victory Points

Kabal of the Crying Soul
Dark Eldar

HQ - 167
Archon (Khiraq Ah’hira, the Flayer)
+jetbike
+power weapon
+combat drugs
+T-helmet
+shadow field
+Plasma grenades

Troops - 627pts
10x dark eldar warriors - 100pts
+2 Dark Lances

10x dark eldar warriors - 100pts
+2 Dark Lances

6x Dark Eldar Warriors - 143pts
+Splinter Cannon
+Syabrite
++Agoniser & Splinter Pistol
+Raider
++dark lance
++horrofex

7x Dark Eldar Warriors - 151pts
+Splinter Cannon
+Syabrite
++Agoniser & Splinter Pistol
+Raider
++Dark Lance
++Horrorfex

6x Dark Eldar Warriors - 141pts
+Splinter Cannon
+Syabrite
++Agoniser & Splinter Pistol
+Raider
++Dark Lance
++Horrorfex

Fast - 362pts
4x Reaver Jetbikes - 181pts
+Succubus on Jetbike
++Agoniser
++Tormentor Helm
+2 blasters

4x Reaver Jetbikes - 181pts
+Succubus on Jetbike
++Agoniser
++Tormentor Helm
+2 blasters

Elites - 338pts
7x Wyches - 200
+Succubbus
++Agoniser
+wych weapons
+Raider
++Dark Lance
++Horrorfex

Warp beast pack – 63
+4x beasts
+Beastmaster

5x mandrakes - 75

Heavy Support - 345pts
Ravager - 120
+3x Disintegrators

Ravager - 120
+3x Disintegrators

Ravager - 105
+3 Dark Lances

-----------------------------

Vorrack Cadre
Tau

HQ - 83
Shas’el (Helios Config) - 83
+Plasma rifle
+Fusion Blaster
+Multitracker

Elites - 243
Crisis Suit (Helios Config) - 63
+Plasma Rifle
+Fusion Blaster
Multitracker

3x Stealth suits - 90

3x Stealth suits - 90

Troops - 1119
12x Fire warriors - 215
+Shas'ui
+Devilfish
++Decoy launchers

Troops - 205
12x Fire warriors
+Devilfish
++Decoy launchers

Troops - 205
12x Fire warriors
+Devilfish
++Decoy launchers

Troops - 205
12x Fire warriors
+Devilfish
++Decoy launchers

Troops - 205
12x Fire warriors
+Devilfish
++Decoy launchers

12x Kroot Carnivores - 84

Heavy Support - 165
hammerhead gunship
+rail gun
+2X burst cannon
+decoy launchers
+Multi tracker

hammerhead gunship - 145
+ion cannon
+2X burst cannon
+decoy launchers
+Multi tracker

Broadside battle suit - 90
+Shield generator

 

[numberofthebeastxxx]

This is a tough one. However, DE have all the mobility and firepower of the tau, with a monster cc kick on top of it all. 11 dark lances and 6 disintegrators, not to mention the blasters when they get close enough, are more than enough to ground the tau over a few turns. Yes the tau have the potential to ground the DE as well, but with any sense they will be started in cover. The guns can take the transports and the cc units can zoom forward, decimating the tau. The kroot are no match for the wyches, jetbikes, or beasts. The tau army can be taken apart piece by piece, by 1st grounding the transports and following up with cc. There simply wont be enough tau left to claim table quarters.

I vote for DE.

 

[medic_40771]

I vote Dark Eldar
This match might actually be decided by who gets first turn and exactly how much los-blocking terrain there is but I'm going to vote DE and here's why.

The DE have too many highly mobile anti tank weapons: 11 DL on skimmers, 4 Blasters on Bikes, 6 Dissies on skimmers and they only have to kill 7 vehicles. This DE list is well suited to taking out MEQ. They can reasonably expect to float enough DL into LOS of only a few Tau ships to take them out piecemeal. Obviously they are susceptible to this same tactic so first turn will be important. Still I think the bike squads will offset this.

After the first turn some transports on both sides will have been shot down but the DE's assault range means their remaining units will get into HtH by turn 2 and just consolidate into new units as each side loses transports each turn.

I expect the DE to retain more mobility by turn 6 and therefore be able to claim more quarters.

 

[Robizzle]

Tau

The fact that the Tau have enough firepower to bring down loads of them raiders really early on is enough to stop the DE in their tracks. afterwards, the Dark Pointy-ears, are going to have a very hard time chasing things that will open up a can of whoop-ass on them.

 

[Sareld]

The tau and the dark eldar has almost equal firepower, but the dark eldar has the mobility to put theirs into effect first, and the CC punch to shred the tau so fast that they wont know what hit them. If the table lacks terrain and the tau go first however, the tau will be able to kill everything in their first turn, and the DE player wont even get to move.. Tough call, but my vote goes to...

Dark Eldar

 

[Librarian Augustine]

It has come to my attention that every weapon in the Tau arsenal is capable of taking down a raider. With this fact in mind I don't see how the dark eldar would win. The turn after their transports are destroyed they will all be entangled, destroyed and transportless. Then the firewarriors can easily jump out of the devilfish and blitzkreig the dark eldar with their pulse rifles.

Tau

 

[Silver Wings]

Tau

Devilfishes will save the Tau list.

DE may be uber in HtH but its kind of hard to beat up a skimmer with a wych weapon, savvy?

Furthermore those transports are numeroous, pretty DL proof and can down raiders in retaliation with thier burst cannon/gundrones. Not to mention the Hammerheads which have the Ravagers with Dissies totaly outclassed.

The various suits can deep strike in to go for targets out of LoS, while massed moving out pulse fire can take the bikers down.

 

[Librarian Augustine]

I think that the dark eldar have enough heavy weapons to destroy the devilfishes all in one turn (probably won't happen but its possible) The tau don't really have anything that can take down enough of these raiders.

Tau is the army I know least about. I could be persuaded otherwise

 

[numberofthebeastxxx]

Well although the tau transports are numerous, they will be the 1st targeted. The DE player shouldn't be stupid enough to advance all at once and get shot to pieces. The DE have some killer anti tank weaponry (as I and other mentioned) which will ground most of the transports over a few turns. Once enough of them are down the cc round will wipe em out. Plus the DE transports are even more mobile than the tau. They can claim table quarters quicker and at shorter notice. The tau player has to target either the transports or the cc squads. Since the DE player can win in cc with virtually any unit, and they can always fleet, they can capture table quarters and wipe out units more effectively than the tau.

 

[TheWamp]

6 disintigrators, 11 darklances (since there's no hurry to get to the enemy you can't kill.

2 dark lances 4/3 hits 20/18 dead broadsides.

6 disintigrators, 4 hits 4/3 glancing hits 8/27 dead devilfishes
9 dark lances, 6 hits 3 glances 6/9 dead devilfishes

So one dead tau tank per turn assuming all the DE stay alive.

However, given how much tau firepower can be brought to bear, I'd say that those DE transports won't last and in this case that kills them, since the Tau just hop back in their tanks and move away.

I vote Tau

 

[Addoran]

Tau

There has been some majorover-estimation as to the effectiveness of those Dark Lances against the Tau vehicles. I don't see the Tau losing more than 1/2 skimmers per turn, unlike the DE who's Raiders will be severely nixed even by Firewarriors shooting at range.

The jetbikes are probably the only things I see giving the Tau a major headache. Their suits will probably be caught by the DE and die in assault, but it won't be the suits deciding the game. Not even the DE's legendary speed will win them this battle.

 

[Lost Nemesis]

The tau and the dark eldar has almost equal firepower, but the dark eldar has the mobility to put theirs into effect first, and the CC punch to shred the tau so fast that they wont know what hit them. If the table lacks terrain and the tau go first however, the tau will be able to kill everything in their first turn, and the DE player wont even get to move..

How, might I ask, would the DE CC units get into CC with the Tau?

The only units that will, most likely, be able to be easily caught in a CC are:

1) Stealth/Crisis Suits, which are mobile enough to avoid the enemy, or durable enough to survive a fair amount of hits.

2) The Kroot, which will be infiltrating into cover, who have a fair amount of attacks capable of shredding the DE if they are charged. Or, if not charged, their Kroot Rifles can shred the DE as well, being bolter equivalents.

3) The one lone Broadside, which is probably far enough into the Tau lines that any DE unit crazy enough to rush in there will.. well, no reason to go there. I wouldn't expect it to survive very long, and what's a single Broadside when two more Hammerheads are around?

Here's some pro-Tau stuff for you all:

1) Ionhead - While not the "most effective" Hammerhead configuration, the Ion Cannon will be able to easily shoot down a Raider per turn and, failing that, shred the enemy with up to 9 shots from its Cannon and Bursts.

2) Railhead - Easily, very easily, popping any DE vehicles if it needs to. After that, or even before, those DE Sniper Squads will be going squash under that Ordnance template, which will eat them alive. Even if the Dark Lances, etc. do get hits on it, they still need a 4+ to glance it, and if the Tau player plays smartly, they will only ever get glancing hits because of the Skimmers Moving Fast rule.

3) Fire Warriors - They won't be able to be charged by an enemy CC unit, because they are in their Fishies. When they get out to shoot the enemy, chances are the enemy squad won't stand much of a chance in staying alive. And finally, they are 100% mobile, and there are lots of them - meaning, of course, that they can get to objectives and hold them relatively easily.

4) Kroot - Very good harassment unit, especially against lower-T armies like DE. They will infiltrate into a position to tear up, most probably, the Sniper Squads. That's what I would use them for, anyways.

5) Stealth Suits - While the small squads are less effective than larger ones, they also can't get tied up in CC as easily, and can spread their high amount of S5 shots - they can hunt anything, really. Shoot down Raiders, shoot down Warriors, Wyches, etc. etc. Overall, a good anti-DE unit.

6) Crisis Suits - Not quite as useful as they could be, they will still have an easy time going after those Raiders/Ravagers.

7) Broadside - Can take some hits, and definitely help with anti-tank. Small enough to be ignored, but if it's not, the DE player wastes a lot of shooting and/or assaulting on a single-model unit, so it's a win-win situation.

Of course, I'm making it sound like it won't be relatively close and the DE army is going to be utterly crushed - that's not it at all. However, the DE's main plus - assault - is all but completely countered by a Mech Tau army such as this.

I vote for the Tau.

edit:

As far as fluff goes.. it's very close. Both utilise a lot of Troops, but in the end, I think the Tau will pull off the fluffier list. Not an overabundance of Elites (like many Tau lists), fully Mechanised except a lone Broadside... etc. etc. I think it's very much the Tau style of attack, and a very fluffy list. While it was close...

I vote for Tau as being the fluffier list.



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[ForgedInTheFurnaceOfWar]

Tau win

If the DE boosts his bikes up, 18-24" The tau player has more then enough manoverablitliy to target them with all 5 troops squads. Thats 132 shots on 2 bikes squads + archon. 66 hits. That does 44 wounds on the bikes. It takes 16 wounds on the bikes, untill they all die, the arhron has a 2+ so, hes got 28 wounds against him. 28 times (1/6) = 4 rounding down. archon has 3 wounds, so head killed as well. If your still thinking that not enough firepower, the devil fishes could finish him off, they have another 15 shots. + 10 drone shots.

Tau mech tactics, placing squads in V, and [ shapes, deny charges by units who cant fly. While the skimmer tanks can fly over them, they cant assault from the tank.

The rail gun can fire a submunsion shot at the beasts, to make sure they dont get a lucky movement, it can pretty much take that whole squad out, in the first turn.

The iron cannon will down a raider, or damage a ravenger.

The twinlinked rail gun can silence a ravenger.

The crisis suits can easily take down a raider or 2. 8 plasma rifle shots, 6 hits, 3 glancing hits, 1 dead. Mutli tracker - 4 fusion guns, 3 hits, 8s, so, basically 2 glancing hits, another 1 dead. So the suits can easily take out 2 of these tanks, (remember they are opened topped so they die on 4+)

the stealth suit squad could also take down a raider. 18 shots, 9 hits, 3 glancing hits, dead raider.

This basically crippled the DE, who still need another turn to get out of there tanks so they can charge, having lost 3-4 tanks already, i don think they will be doing much of anything.

 

[Rikimaru]

6 disintigrators, 11 darklances (since there's no hurry to get to the enemy you can't kill.

2 dark lances 4/3 hits 20/18 dead broadsides.

6 disintigrators, 4 hits 4/3 glancing hits 8/27 dead devilfishes
9 dark lances, 6 hits 3 glances 6/9 dead devilfishes

So one dead tau tank per turn assuming all the DE stay alive.

However, given how much tau firepower can be brought to bear, I'd say that those DE transports won't last and in this case that kills them, since the Tau just hop back in their tanks and move away.

I vote Tau

The Tau have the edge on firepower especially since the DE vehicles are low armored open topped vehicles.
The Tau also have the benefit of the DF, once the Raiders are taken out the DE are reduced to walking and then the DF can take their time taking out units by dropping the FW and rapid firing.
The only problem I can see is if the Wyches and jetbikes get into CC if that happens it could severly tip the balance of the game.
I would use the mobillty of the Tau to avoid the DE close combat units and this should be quite easy with this Mech list, target the Raiders and troops and Wyches as much as possible and try to take down the bikes and the HQ with the XV8's and Stealths.

It would really hinge on who gets the 1st turn, but I think the Tau could wether the attack of the DE better.

So my vote is a TAU close battle though.

This DE list is yet another illustration of why 3 Railgun Hammerheads are the choice, 3 subs a turn would cripple this DE list bady.

 

[Ezekiel1990]

I've changed my mind twice.

Originally, I was going to say tau, since they have 60 men, but then I realized that they needed to capture table quarters, and the DE have raiders, and finally I looked back upon the tau list and saw the devilfishies. So once the transports get blown up, it comes between the 60 firewarriors and the 50 or so DE, and the tau WILL outgun them int his area. The tau will hit on 4+ and kill on 2+ - not like the splinter rifles that will hit on 3+ and wound on 4+ and kill with a failed armour save (though there is the occasional splinter cannon and disentigrator). Both sides will lose their transports, but the DE have more to lose in this matter, as they almost exclusively rely ont heir transports to get into combat.

Tau

EDIT:
As of now, it's
Tau: 9
DE: 3

 

[Grey]

You know, I wonder if in the next votewar there could be a randomizer of some sort to let us know how much and of what type the terrain will be. Of course, that'd be more work for Caluin, so maybe its unfeasible.

Sure would make judging who'd win in this matchup easier though.

I'm going to reserve voting until I think about this a bit more, both in terms of game play and fluff, this is a real tough call for me. Unlike an earlier matchup, the Tau have both the numbers and number of units to target the majority of the DE, provided they can see them, which again brings us back to cover.

Again, I think the firewarriors with their high range Str5 weapons can really punish the DE on the way in, perhaps enough to enable the Tau to take table quarters by default. The Archon on the jetbike along with the others will be eliminating a squad a turn though.

 

[medic_40771]

Tau win
This basically crippled the DE, who still need another turn to get out of there tanks so they can charge, having lost 3-4 tanks already, i don think they will be doing much of anything.

Just a reminder to everyone that Raiders are opened topped and can perform the 'Raider Rush' - move+fleet+assault = 12" +2" deploy +1-6" fleet +6" Assault = 21"-26" assault range.

 

[Silver Wings]

Just a reminder to everyone that Raiders are opened topped and can perform the 'Raider Rush' - move+fleet+assault = 12" +2" deploy +1-6" fleet +6" Assault = 21"-26" assault range.

True, but a little pointless against av12 skimming vehicles non?

 

[danceman]

How, might I ask, would the DE CC units get into CC with the Tau?

The only units that will, most likely, be able to be easily caught in a CC are:

1) Stealth/Crisis Suits, which are mobile enough to avoid the enemy, or durable enough to survive a fair amount of hits.

2) The Kroot, which will be infiltrating into cover, who have a fair amount of attacks capable of shredding the DE if they are charged. Or, if not charged, their Kroot Rifles can shred the DE as well, being bolter equivalents.

3) The one lone Broadside, which is probably far enough into the Tau lines that any DE unit crazy enough to rush in there will.. well, no reason to go there. I wouldn't expect it to survive very long, and what's a single Broadside when two more Hammerheads are around?

Here's some pro-Tau stuff for you all:

1) Ionhead - While not the "most effective" Hammerhead configuration, the Ion Cannon will be able to easily shoot down a Raider per turn and, failing that, shred the enemy with up to 9 shots from its Cannon and Bursts.

2) Railhead - Easily, very easily, popping any DE vehicles if it needs to. After that, or even before, those DE Sniper Squads will be going squash under that Ordnance template, which will eat them alive. Even if the Dark Lances, etc. do get hits on it, they still need a 4+ to glance it, and if the Tau player plays smartly, they will only ever get glancing hits because of the Skimmers Moving Fast rule.

3) Fire Warriors - They won't be able to be charged by an enemy CC unit, because they are in their Fishies. When they get out to shoot the enemy, chances are the enemy squad won't stand much of a chance in staying alive. And finally, they are 100% mobile, and there are lots of them - meaning, of course, that they can get to objectives and hold them relatively easily.

4) Kroot - Very good harassment unit, especially against lower-T armies like DE. They will infiltrate into a position to tear up, most probably, the Sniper Squads. That's what I would use them for, anyways.

5) Stealth Suits - While the small squads are less effective than larger ones, they also can't get tied up in CC as easily, and can spread their high amount of S5 shots - they can hunt anything, really. Shoot down Raiders, shoot down Warriors, Wyches, etc. etc. Overall, a good anti-DE unit.

6) Crisis Suits - Not quite as useful as they could be, they will still have an easy time going after those Raiders/Ravagers.

7) Broadside - Can take some hits, and definitely help with anti-tank. Small enough to be ignored, but if it's not, the DE player wastes a lot of shooting and/or assaulting on a single-model unit, so it's a win-win situation.

Of course, I'm making it sound like it won't be relatively close and the DE army is going to be utterly crushed - that's not it at all. However, the DE's main plus - assault - is all but completely countered by a Mech Tau army such as this.

I vote for the Tau.

edit:

As far as fluff goes.. it's very close. Both utilise a lot of Troops, but in the end, I think the Tau will pull off the fluffier list. Not an overabundance of Elites (like many Tau lists), fully Mechanised except a lone Broadside... etc. etc. I think it's very much the Tau style of attack, and a very fluffy list. While it was close...

I vote for Tau as being the fluffier list.

just a little food for thought.

1. how will the sleath suits avoid the warp beasts? the will be all over the tau, they can clear 24 inches in one turn, 31-36 in two.
2. how will they avoid the mandrakes?(even these can kick tau arse).
3. kroot are a joke, good harassarers?
4. there wont be much transports left... i wonder how they will cope with 11 lances, 6 dizzies, 4 blasters = 21 anti-tank/anti suit weapons. i see alot more than one of them going down in a single turn
Seriously cant see how the tau could live through that.
5. the reavers easily will kick the rest of the suits/leader ass as their are extremely quick and will laugh at anything the Tau throws at them. especially with the archon among them.
The archon will have a field day
6.the splinter weapons(especially cannons) are quite adept and killing off tau infantry.

dont you see? i am counting on loosing raiders, they are not essential to the plan.

True, but a little pointless against av12 skimming vehicles non?

there wont be much transports left after turn 1.
priority;
1: kill off the speed.
2. use whatever lances left at the tanks
2. get locked in CC thus negating the tau players shooting.
3. clean up, claim the mission.

 

[Lost Nemesis]

1. how will the sleath suits avoid the warp beasts? the will be all over the tau, they can clear 24 inches in one turn, 31-36 in two.
2. how will they avoid the mandrakes?(even these can kick tau arse).
3. kroot are a joke, good harassarers?
4. there wont be much transports left... i wonder how they will cope with 11 lances, 6 dizzies, 4 blasters = 21 anti-tank/anti suit weapons. i see alot more than one of them going down in a single turn
Seriously cant see how the tau could live through that.
5. the reavers easily will kick the rest of the suits/leader ass as their are extremely quick and will laugh at anything the Tau throws at them. especially with the archon among them.
The archon will have a field day
6.the splinter weapons(especially cannons) are quite adept and killing off tau infantry.

All good points, of course.

1) By utilising cover and using their Jet Packs, while pumping the squad full of Burst Cannon shots.. how else? Even if the Warp Beasts do catch one unit in CC, that still only means that a squad of 3 will be gone - not a big hit to the Tau forces.

2) They can't kick Tau but very well, though. Sure, they hit well enough, and have a fairly decent amount of attacks.. but wounding against T4 (for some units, anyways) will prove to be difficult, and they don't ignore armour saves very well. They don't need to avoid the Mandrakes - Mandrakes aren't the biggest threat of the list, and while they can potentially do damage, they aren't a gamewinner. Just shoot them. They die like normal.

3) You obviously don't know much about Kroot (no offense meant!). Kroot have about the same shooting capabilities as the Tau Firewarrior, minus one strength - still, a Bolter equivalent (with infiltrate to boot) is more than enough to put the hurt on a Dark Eldar unit. While in cover, unless the squad that wants to charge them has got grenades, if they are charged they have two high strength, reasonable WS attacks each - against DE, that's a decent bit. And, since they cost so few points, they aren't a huge loss to the Tau army if they get killed. So, they are wonderful at being a harassment unit.

4) Let's see - pretty much, a 3+ to hit, a 4+ to glance, plus Decoy Launchers on those Fishies. Even with that amount of anti-tank power, it's not going to kill the Devilfish nearly as badly as you seem to think it will. That is, of course, if the weapons even have clear shots on all of those vehicles..

5) Those Reavers are dangerous, sure. But they die to a Hammerhead Submunition round quite easily - and they will probably be the ones getting hit by it the most. What can they hit in CC? .... Kroot.... a few Stealths.. and a couple Crisis Suits. The Fire Warriors, and vehicles, are the main weapons of the Tau list. They can't get tied up in CC if they are in their vehicles, which they will be most of the time, so most CC units are wasted against this army, until the transports are destroyed. And, again, the few Stealths/Crisis Suits out there aren't key to the victory of the Tau army, especially against DE where that Plasma/Fusion stuff isn't really needed all that well. The Tau army will do quite fine without them - they are but supporting units.

6) Maybe Kroot, sure. Everything else either gets their armour save, or is in a transport. Good luck shooting the infantry through the transport. It will only be useful, again, if the Fishies are destroyed.

Keep in mind, also, this is only if the DE player goes first - if the Tau player goes first, a lot of those DL's and other things will be shot down. Those Ravagers? Say bye bye.

I think you're underestimating the Tau a fair bit - now, again I say, I'm not saying the DE list is completely ineffective. It's just not a killing machine against this Tau list, and I believe the Tau list will have an easier time in fighting this battle. By no means is it going to be a one-sided victory - I'm just arguing for the side I think will win. I know a fair amount about DE, so don't think me to be underestimating them. Nor am I saying that it is a bad list. Just, in this case, it will most likely lose when this battle is being fought by two equally skilled players.



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