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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
Please see this thread on how to participate in these games. I want to stress to everyone that the mission means everything. He who stands the best way to score Victory Points should be the winner.

Mission Type - Cleanse

Mission Level - Gamma

Special Rules - Infiltration, Deep Strike, Victory Points


"Splinter Fleet Typhon"
Tyranids


HQ - 211
Hive Tyrant- 211
+Winged
+Warp Field
+Toxin Sacs
+Scything Talons
+T-L Devourer
+Adrenal Glands (I)
+Toxic Miasma

Elites - 435
5x Warriors - 145
+5x Enhanced Senses
+5x Fleshborer
+5x Extended Carapace
+5x Rending Claws

5x Warriors - 145
+5x Enhanced Senses
+5x Fleshborer
+5x Extended Carapace
+5x Rending Claws

5x Warriors - 145
+5x Enhanced Senses
+5x Fleshborer
+5x Extended Carapace
+5x Rending Claws

Troops - 800
32x Gaunts - 160
+Spinefists

32x Gaunts - 160
+Spinefists

32x Gaunts - 160
+Spinefists

32x Gaunts - 160
+Spinefists

32x Gaunts - 160
+Spinefists

Heavy Support - 406
Carnifex - 203
+Extended Carapace
+T-L Venom Cannon
+Enhanced Senses
+Reinforced Chitin

Carnifex - 203
+Extended Carapace
+T-L Venom Cannon
+Enhanced Senses
+Reinforced Chitin

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Emperor's Children
(All models have Mark of Slaanesh when applicable.)

HQ - 162
Daemon Prince of Slaanesh
+CCW
+Dreadaxe
+Daemonic Aura
+Daemonic Speed
+Daemonic Stature
+Daemonic Strength
+frag grenades
+spiky bits

Troops - 998
5x Noise Marines
+5xsonic blasters
+Aspiring Champion
++Power weapon
++Melta bombs
++Daemonic Strength
+Rhino transport
++smoke launchers.

5x Noise Marines
+5xsonic blasters
+Aspiring Champion
++Power weapon
++Melta bombs
++Daemonic Strength
+Rhino transport
++smoke launchers.

5x Noise Marines
+5xsonic blasters
+Aspiring Champion
++Power weapon
++Melta bombs
++Daemonic Strength
+Rhino transport
++smoke launchers.

5x Noise Marines
+5xsonic blasters
+Aspiring Champion
++Power weapon
++Melta bombs
++Daemonic Strength
+Rhino transport
++smoke launchers.

10x Daemonettes

Fast Attack - 259
5x Chaos Space Marine Bikers
+Sonic Blasters
+Champ
++Power Weapon
++Melta Bombs

Heavy Support – 428
5x Havocs - 214
+Bolter
+4x Blast Masters
+5x Tank Hunters
+Aspiring Champion
++Bolt Pistol & CCW
++Tank Hunters

5x Havocs - 214
+Bolter
+4x Blast Masters
+5x Tank Hunters
+Aspiring Champion
++Bolt Pistol & CCW
++Tank Hunters

Strategy:
This army combines serious firepower with the assault prowess of Slaanesh marines (since they will strike 1st with almost any opponent). The havocs lay down constant fire with their blast masters killing pretty much everything they hit. The noise marine squads are suited for both shooting and assaulting, the rhinos provide great mobility when needed, not to mention added protection. The bikes can turbo-boost and flank the enemy, summoning the daemonetts (all noise marine squads also have the potential to summon). The prince will support the army with it’s speed and cc skills. This genuinely a very flexible list, suited for any opponent.
 

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Well let's see here. I vote Emperor's Children.

Here's why:

1. All those warriors have 5+ saves, all those gaunts have 6+ saves. The AP of the sonic blasters is 5 and they can shoot 3x. If all the troops squads fire there are 72 AP 5 shots coming there way. And thats just from the troops (6 models x 3 shots x 4 squads).

2. I forget the statistics but it takes like 8 guants to kill one marine (statistically). Well, out of the ones that make it to combat. And even when they do, the slaanesh marines will hit 1st. Infact they can shoot twice and assault, robbing the gaunts of their charge bonus.

3. The rhinoes can shield the squads from the carnifex fire, and the daemonetts can take down them down in cc. They hit 1st and get 30 attacks on the charge. Rending anyone?

4. Guants need a 6 to wound the bikes.

5. Blastmasters. They wound the guants on 2+, negate their armour saves and have the potential to fire 16 shots (which cause pinning to any squad outside synapse range).

6. If the warriors are targeted and killed by some of the immense firepower I just mentioned, and the Tyrant is killed (by shooting and combat with the daemon prince which hits 1st) the synapse breaks down.

7. The mission is Cleanse in order to capture table quarters, the tyranid army must be split up. Making it much easier to utterly destroy the synapse in this army. The mobility of the EC army would also help capture table corners, only adding iceing to the big cake of victory for the EC.

I think that's enough to prove my point.
 

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Wow... I think that about covers it...

Yes, Nids have numbers. But it's not enough to withstand the superior firepower and toughness of the E.C. marines. Plus the mission is cleanse. So I'm confident that the synapse will be disrupted in the tyranid army. Since, both players are assumed to be veteren players right?

1 vote for E.C.
 

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Emporer's Children
For all of the above reasons. 5+ saves just don't cut it, and 6+ saves are even worse.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
numberofthebeastxxx said:
1. All those warriors have 5+ saves, all those gaunts have 6+ saves. The AP of the sonic blasters is 5 and they can shoot 3x.
Not taking sides, or trying to influence anyone, but though I'd point out that those Warriors all have 4+ saves due to the Extended Carapace. That means they'll get some form of Armour Save against those Sonic Blasters.
 

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I'm gonna vote nids and point out there are more than a few factual consistencies in the opening post that means I feel the opening statement has unfairly swayed so many other posters reading.

Let's think about this seriously, those EC are carrying the equivalent of a 3 shot bolter. That means a squad of them can put out 15 shots per turn. A 10 man Space Marine squad puts out 20 shots a turn, and out of the two I know which one I'd rather have. A 5 man marine squad, even fearless chaos marines with Mos will take serious casualties being charged by 20+ gaunts.

numberofthebeastxxx said:
1. All those warriors have 5+ saves
As stated, no they don't, they will get their saves.

numberofthebeastxxx said:
2. I forget the statistics but it takes like 8 guants to kill one marine (statistically).
Let's not forget to factor in casualties for being outnumbered, 5 marines versus 25 gaunts is a potentially an extra 4 armour saves per turn.

numberofthebeastxxx said:
5. Blastmasters. They wound the guants on 2+, negate their armour saves and have the potential to fire 16 shots (which cause pinning to any squad outside synapse range).
Let's be serious here, the nid player who let's his units gets pinned hasn't been playing very long.

numberofthebeastxxx said:
6. If the warriors are targeted and killed by some of the immense firepower I just mentioned, and the Tyrant is killed (by shooting and combat with the daemon prince which hits 1st) the synapse breaks down.
Firstly the Slaneeshi Daemon Prince does not hit first. Secondly the Hive Tyrant is the more formidable of those two opponents.
 

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I vote Nids

Those 72 shots get one shooting phase to do what they do. 1/3 miss, so it's 48 shots, but then 1/3 fail to wound, so it's only 32 shots or one squad. Then, they're stuck in cc.

It's really ineffective to try to hurt those warriors, who can't be insta-killed even by the blastmasters, because of synapse.

They'll be swamped, and then the big things will follow up, game over

The Slaneshi marines will NOT assault, because they can only assault 12". The gaunts have fleet of foot, (they come with it), so they're much faster. Also, if they did, they'd lose their alot of those 72 shots)

It would be convenient to say "synapse will be disrupted," but assuming baseline intelligence on the nid player that ain't gonna happen, because there's 15 disrupted units and the EC player has a pitiful (no joke, count the non-S4, AP5 stuff) amount of firepower... on two hands:rolleyes:
 

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Ok. The warriros do have a 4+ save. However, the AP of a blastmaster is 4. No matter which frequency it's fired on. So at a varied frequency the warriors will be hit with a blast template, wounded on 2's with no armour save. On a single frequency there would be 2 shots, wounding on 3's also with no armour save.

Yes, under normal circumstances synapse would be easier to control. But this is a cleanse mission, synapse must be split up to capture table quarters. This makes it much easier to kill the warriors and make the gaunts flee.

The EC player would not place the marines close enough for a 1st turn charge. Therefore the guants will have to advance through the firepower. Also, we don't know about the terrain on the board. The EC could easily get another turn to fire at the gaunts (especially if the fleet of foot roll is bad). Everything won't be in combat, so there will still be oncoming fire from the EC at virtually all the time.

The Daemon Prince and the Tyrant will hit simultaneously. However, while the tyrant hits on 4's and wounds on 3's. The prince hits on 3's (with one re-roll) and 4's. And there is one distinct difference. The Tyrant gets NO saves against the attacks from the prince. The prince will in all likelihood win combat. As stated before, the Daemonetts can take down the carnifexes, and once they and the tyrant is gone, the big hitters of the nid army are out.
 

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Reading this again, I see even more inconsistencies.

The EC have 200 points tied up in Rhinos that aren't going to do much against those nids, due to Synapse. It's easy to say the EC player could pick off the warriors if they had a +5 armour save, but to do it with a +4 save means he would have to ignore those 32 strong spinegaunt squads to concentrate on them. Getting charged then by one of those intact spinegaunt squads is a fools errand.

The Emperor's Children list has no hidden powerfists or AP2 shooting, so there's 3 Monstrous Creatures running round that are going to be seriously hard/nigh impossible to damage. Those Daemonettes are the only thing I'd regard as any threat to them, and T3 with a +5 save anything non-monstrous in the nid army would have some fun with them.

All the nid player has got to do really is aim his Hive Tyrant at the DP, and wait for those biker squads to get tied up and hit them with some warriors for some splattage.

I'd suggest some of the other voters look at this again and weigh it up.
 

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I just explained how the Daemon prince will win against the tyrant. The tyrant gets NO saves. Many people underestimate the effectiveness of rhinoes. It can block LOS from the cranifexes and form a virtual wall for the guants to run around. The 72 shots of sonic blasters arent going at the warriors. Thats what the blastmasters are for. Read my post. They shoot blast templates, wound on 2's, with NO armour saves! Plus there's one thing I forgot. It insta-kills them. And, once again, synapse must be split up. It's a CLEANSE mission. So the a couple warriors will easily die from the 2 squads of blastmasters (the rest will be killed in other turns), and the tyrant can be taken down by the daemon prince and even more shooting. Try to hold the split up guants in synapse range now. The Daemonetts take down the carnifexes, and at this point its just a matter of capturing table quarters with the EC superior mobility and rounding up the guants which would be running away at this point.

I suggest Players simply read my posts and be comfortable with their votes. Perhaps it would have been different if the mission was straight up kill-em'-all. But it's not.
 

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numberofthebeastxxx said:
Plus there's one thing I forgot. It insta-kills them.
Another error...no it doesn't.

numberofthebeastxxx said:
However, while the tyrant hits on 4's and wounds on 3's. The prince hits on 3's (with one re-roll) and 4's.
Er, the Tyrant has same WS as the DP. Both hit on a +4.

numberofthebeastxxx said:
I just explained how the Daemon prince will win against the tyrant. The tyrant gets NO saves.
The Tyrant also has more wounds and better toughness. The Tyrand has wings so will get the charge, meaning it will initially have more attacks. The only thing the DP has going for it is a +5 save.

numberofthebeastxxx said:
Those who have not voted? You should have enough info to decide that the EC will win this combat.
Er, please don't tell people how to vote. I suggested before that people might reconsider their votes in light of the new facts, not telling them who to vote for.
 

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Ok ok, I know I'm right with at least some of these. The only thing im not sure about is the nid' toughness, so before you go off about errors, lets take a look.

Perhaps I'm wrong? Well lets see...

Addoran said:
Another error...no it doesn't.
Well I believe the warrior toughness is 4 correct? Well then the S8 blastmasters insta kills them.

Addoran said:
Er, the Tyrant has same WS as the DP. Both hit on a +4.
No I know I'm right here. The prince has a WS of 6 because of stature. So he does hit on a 3+


Addoran said:
The Tyrant also has more wounds and better toughness. The Tyrand has wings so will get the charge, meaning it will initially have more attacks. The only thing the DP has going for it is a +5 save.
Yes, but the prince will hit more. And since the tyrant has no protection against the attacks, they will either kill each other (if the nid player rolls lucky) or the prince will win.

Addoran said:
Er, please don't tell people how to vote. I suggested before that people might reconsider their votes in light of the new facts, not telling them who to vote for.
Why don't we just agree that people should look at the facts. Not change their votes because they tell them too. Keeps things more civilized, don't you think?
 

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I'm sorry Addoran, but im not convinced enough to change my vote. Even if number is wrong about the insta-kill, he is right about the synapse being seperated. If the warriors and tyrant are selectively targeted I still think they will be killed and synapse will be disrupted. Especially when the daemonetts come out. They dont have to assault the carni's they can help kill off synapse.

So I'm not changing my vote. But maybe you guys should settle down just a bit? :rolleyes:
 

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numberofthebeastxxx said:
Well I believe the warrior toughness is 4 correct? Well then the S8 blastmasters insta kills them.
Indeed, but the Warriors are immune to insta-kill.

numberofthebeastxxx said:
Why don't we just agree that people should look at the facts. Not change their votes because they tell them too. Keeps things more civilized, don't you think?
On that note, I was thinking along the same lines. Gonna back out of this thread, after all we don't want it clattered up with me and you going back and forth.

Anyway, I've laid my vote - I'm so sure on the table that the nids would win this one that I would put money on it. I'll leave this one now to run it's course :)
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
numberofthebeastxxx said:
Well I believe the warrior toughness is 4 correct? Well then the S8 blastmasters insta kills them.
Synapse prevents instant kill. Page 28 of the Tyranid Codex. And while we're talking about Blastmasters, the Varied Frequency has only an AP of 5.

numberofthebeastxxx said:
No I know I'm right here. The prince has a WS of 6 because of stature. So he does hit on a 3+
The Tyrant has Toxic Miasma. That drops the Prince's WS down a point so they both have an effective WS of 5. They both hit on 4+.

numberofthebeastxxx said:
Why don't we just agree that people should look at the facts. Not change their votes because they tell them too. Keeps things more civilized, don't you think?
Yes, that's a good idea.
 

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Emperors Children.

Rhinos are worthless.

However. With 70 odd Bolt shots targeting weedy little gaunts the results arent going to be pretty, 35 odd dead.

If those are the closer 35, the Nids have a problem. In fact if the spinegaunts spread 2" in a 12 by 10 formation thats several feet of the board covered. Easier then to remove the closer ones (within 24") and leave the others further away. Even without that fact the EC are likely to get 3 or so shooting rounds, over 100 little critters dead, and once the 'gaunti's do reach combat all hope is not lost. Especialy as if the EC units have spread out they may get more fire/counter assault.

While synapse prevents instant death, Blastmasters can still tear down 'nid warrior squads pretty easily. cutting down precious synapse. If one flanks worth goes the nids are in trouble. However they could try and keep back behind the gaunts out of LoS.

If it comes down to a slagging match between the Tyrant and Daemon Prince typey person I think the EC may have the upper hand. The EC could use cover to strike first, or wait for the HT to charge a squad to counter assault.

Daemonettes will happily chop through any 'Nid unit. All of them v's a Carnifex would be ugly. If some of them survived to help the Lord instead it could again tip the balance v's the HT.

Thats my pretty worthless opinion anyway.
 

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EC 5 Nids 2(Correct me if I'm wrong)
 

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Librarian Augustine said:
A lot of the things that convinced me to vote EC have been proven wrong. I change my vote to NIDs. I never thought all the nids would be killed but that they would run away without synapse.
Synapse isn't the only thing that makes them lose. Wings of Doom has some good points too.
 
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