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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
Please see this thread on how to participate in these games. I want to stress to everyone that the mission means everything. He who stands the best way to score Victory Points should be the winner.

Mission Type - Secure and Control

Mission Level - Alpha

Special Rules - Victory Points


Emperor's Children
(All models have Mark of Slaanesh when applicable.)

HQ - 162
Daemon Prince of Slaanesh
+CCW
+Dreadaxe
+Daemonic Aura
+Daemonic Speed
+Daemonic Stature
+Daemonic Strength
+frag grenades
+spiky bits

Troops - 998
5x Noise Marines
+5xsonic blasters
+Aspiring Champion
++Power weapon
++Melta bombs
++Daemonic Strength
+Rhino transport
++smoke launchers.

5x Noise Marines
+5xsonic blasters
+Aspiring Champion
++Power weapon
++Melta bombs
++Daemonic Strength
+Rhino transport
++smoke launchers.

5x Noise Marines
+5xsonic blasters
+Aspiring Champion
++Power weapon
++Melta bombs
++Daemonic Strength
+Rhino transport
++smoke launchers.

5x Noise Marines
+5xsonic blasters
+Aspiring Champion
++Power weapon
++Melta bombs
++Daemonic Strength
+Rhino transport
++smoke launchers.

10x Daemonettes

Fast Attack - 259
5x Chaos Space Marine Bikers
+Sonic Blasters
+Champ
++Power Weapon
++Melta Bombs

Heavy Support – 428
5x Havocs - 214
+Bolter
+4x Blast Masters
+5x Tank Hunters
+Aspiring Champion
++Bolt Pistol & CCW
++Tank Hunters

5x Havocs - 214
+Bolter
+4x Blast Masters
+5x Tank Hunters
+Aspiring Champion
++Bolt Pistol & CCW
++Tank Hunters

Strategy:
This army combines serious firepower with the assault prowess of Slaanesh marines (since they will strike 1st with almost any opponent). The havocs lay down constant fire with their blast masters killing pretty much everything they hit. The noise marine squads are suited for both shooting and assaulting, the rhinos provide great mobility when needed, not to mention added protection. The bikes can turbo-boost and flank the enemy, summoning the daemonetts (all noise marine squads also have the potential to summon). The prince will support the army with it’s speed and cc skills. This genuinely a very flexible list, suited for any opponent.

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Vorrack Cadre
Tau

HQ - 83
Shas’el (Helios Config) - 83
+Plasma rifle
+Fusion Blaster
+Multitracker

Elites - 243
Crisis Suit (Helios Config) - 63
+Plasma Rifle
+Fusion Blaster
Multitracker

3x Stealth suits - 90

3x Stealth suits - 90

Troops - 1119
12x Fire warriors - 215
+Shas'ui
+Devilfish
++Decoy launchers

Troops - 205
12x Fire warriors
+Devilfish
++Decoy launchers

Troops - 205
12x Fire warriors
+Devilfish
++Decoy launchers

Troops - 205
12x Fire warriors
+Devilfish
++Decoy launchers

Troops - 205
12x Fire warriors
+Devilfish
++Decoy launchers

12x Kroot Carnivores - 84

Heavy Support - 165
hammerhead gunship
+rail gun
+2X burst cannon
+decoy launchers
+Multi tracker

hammerhead gunship - 145
+ion cannon
+2X burst cannon
+decoy launchers
+Multi tracker

Broadside battle suit - 90
+Shield generator
 

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Okay 2 mech lists. the Tau I think will fair better as the EC can't effectivly take out all those devilfish. The devilfish are a good transport the whole game, rhinos are only good with smoke.

I vote Tau
 

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Tau

That EC list is simply going to be drowned by so many Tau vehicles. Tau skimmers are notoriously resiliant, and having 7 of them would give anyone a headache.

The EC do have 2 good anti-tank units yes, giving out 4 S9 shots per turn each. However they can at max shoot at one vehicle each per turn. If the Tau player has any sense, we would dedicate as much firepower as necassary to killing those 2 5 man Havoc Squads at the expense of ignoring all other threats.

Once they are down, the EC list simply cannot stand a chance of killing that many skimmers. The Tau also have superior mobility for table quarters, and their basic troops can kill those Rhinos and slow up the EC.
 

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Hmmm. This is a similar battle to the EC vs. LaTD. It's a question of Tau killing enough in shooting before the EC get into CC. Both armies are mobile, so they are both good for this mission. However...

I vote for Emperor's Children

The mission is Secure and Control. For this reason, the tau cannot just dig in and shoot, like they would prefer. Loot counters must be captured. Since this is an Alpha mission, the stealths cannot infiltrate. So it's a rush to get the loot counters. That's fine for both armies. But the Tau must advance forward. Putting them in assault range of the EC. This is where it comes down to the end. Both armies will rush forward, the rhino's will pop smoke so hardly any will be destroyed. The tau have to pile out to get the loot counters, leaving them vulnerable to the double-shot charge tactic of the EC.

The transports of the tau will be taken down by the tons of blastmaster shots that will be directed towards them. While the EC have smoke launchers to protect them, the tau have decoy launchers, but that's not enough. The tau can't kill off enough transports or the turbo-boosting bikes that can easily boost around the board claiming loot copnters and summoning the daemons, which will kill even more tau in cc. The kroot are good but the daemon prince will make short work of them. They can be taken down by the EC troops simply by being shot at with the sonicblaster twice each, and then being assaulted.

It'll be close, but the EC list has the advantage in this mission. CC will happen, spelling the end for the tau.
 

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you realize that there are 7 skimmers for the EC to kill.. not every Tau army digs in and shoots. The only threat are the daemon prince and the daemonettes which they have more than enough fire power to kill.
 

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Indeed, those Rhinos can be killed/immobilised simply by firing a FW squad at them. Practically everything in the Tau list can take them down. If it looked the EC are going to get anywhere near close enough to get into CC, they can quite happily pack into the Devilfish and zoom off. If the Tau player kills those Havocs (and killing 10 marines isn't exactly the hardest job on Earth) he wins. The Tau player can move fast enough to challenge all quarters with ease.

I really don't see why people keep saying the EC have a decent amount of anti-tank.

They have 2 small easily destroyable anti-tank units, effective units but they limit the EC to shooting at only 2 skimmers per turn. Anyone who's played Mech Tau knows Tau skimmers simply don't die that easily.
 

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Librarian Augustine said:
you realize that there are 7 skimmers for the EC to kill.. not every Tau army digs in and shoots.
Yes, but he doesn't have to kill all the transports. He has to capture loot. Those bikes can practically turbo-boost from loot counter to loot counter. The tau have to come forward, and the EC will be safe in combat. But like numberofthebeast said, combat is going to happen. And when it does, tau loose.

1 vote for EC.
 

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The Dvl in Pale Moonlight
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i´m also gonna favour EC. 1. the mission. 2. they have the firepower put a dent in the transports. 3. will kick taus arse once they get close and they will.

voting Emperors Children
 

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danceman said:
i´m also gonna favour EC. 1. the mission. 2. they have the firepower put a dent in the transports. 3. will kick taus arse once they get close and they will.

voting Emperors Children
Minimal but nicely put. The Tau seem to rely on their devilfish's which this EC list can easily take care of. Tau can pull a win out with an incredible strategy and maybe some luck, but in a votewar.. I say Emperor's Children

HPA
 

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I vote Tau

They have a huge amount of firepower, and the EC has no way to touch them, as they can't get to close combat. With nothing to charge except kroot and a broadside, they'll be outmanuevered and slaughtered

If they survive long enough for the mission to matter, then the Tau can simply sit some vehicles on top of the objectives on the last turn and the EC can wish that they had some effective anti-tauskimmer weapons.

I vote Tau for fluff: They have a much more varied list. It isn't a list that has just many repeats of the same units.
 

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TheWamp said:
They have a huge amount of firepower, and the EC has no way to touch them, as they can't get to close combat. With nothing to charge except kroot and a broadside, they'll be outmanuevered and slaughtered

If they survive long enough for the mission to matter, then the Tau can simply sit some vehicles on top of the objectives on the last turn.
Except they will be in combat. Unless the Tau just want to sit back and shoot. Your assuming the EC player is going to be stupid and run right in front of the tau guns. When it's the right moment the EC rhinos will just charge forward, pop smoke and let the squads out to gradb the loot (being covered by the rhinos of course). Plus we don't know the terrain. Most likely there will be some cover as well. The bikes can zip all around the board grabbing counters and resisting fire with their invulnerable turbo-boost saves. That is of course, if the tau player sits back and shoots as you say. But if they want the counters they're going to have to disembark, making them cc targets for the EC. The EC are not nids or khorne berzerkers, the tau can't win this contest by pulling them around on a leash. Plus, some of the tau transports will go down to shooting, putting even more tau in the open for a charge.
 

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Ghost of LO
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These are loot counters, the only turn that matters is the last once, Only scoring units withen 6" of a loot counter may count as taking it.

The crisis suits, and mass fire can kill the bikes pretty easily on turn one or two. Taking 6 man squads below half Strenth isnt very tough for tau.

THe noise marines will need to attack the tanks that the marines can get up the field, this allows the firewarriors pretty easy protection.

Noise marines, have 8 shots on 8S, AP 4, So they hit with 6, a turn, glance with 3 per turn againt AV12. The odds of a 6 being rolled are 48%, It is more likely that this will simply not harm the tank.

Now, tau shooting against chaos: IF the warriors are smart, they deploy out of the the hammer heads, They will fire, 60 shots, at rihnos, 30 hits, 4 glancing hits. 64% odds that one rihno will die. 132% chance that one rihno will be imbolided or die. Note: these do not stack.

A rail gun shot, has 66% chance to hit, lets say it does, 1 auto glance, another rail gun, twinlinked, 75% chance of hiiting, lets again say it does, auto glance, 2 glancing hits: 66% chance of emobilising or destorying the rihno.

Ion cannon, hits with 2, again 66% chance of stoping or killing a rihno.

The devil fishes + sleath squads on the bikes: Sleath suits are Bs4?
Sleath suits at BS 4, kill 3 bikes. Devil fishes, at BS3, kill 1 bike.

Crisis battle suits have good firepower, but i think there are only 2 of them, im guessing the could kill another bike. And the last one might be mopped up by some multi tracker firepower.

Overwhelming firepower: tau win
 

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Dancing Peanuts? You bet!
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Emperors Children

The Tau will surely lose their hammerheads very early, so there will be little chance of them doing anything to the Daemon prince, and when he gets in its all over. the devilfish will also go down pretty damned sharp-ish, leaving the people inside pinned, and daemon/daemon prince bait.
 

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Tau

The Tau can kill 2 5 man EC squads pretty quick and happily, even if those Havocs get a round of shooting off with 7 vehicles chances are Tau are still going to be in the game.

With loads of Skimmers able to move to the objectives and shoot the Rhinos down Tau have an advantage. Once the Rhino's die the Firewarriors can bail out en masse and probably get 2 rounds of rapid fire off as the EC are entangled.

Although Mech Tau is over rated they do not "want to dig in" they are going to be air mobile and lethal to a little anti-tank ground pounder Rhino Using EC army.
 

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Wings of Doom said:
Tau

The Tau can kill 2 5 man EC squads pretty quick and happily, even if those Havocs get a round of shooting off with 7 vehicles chances are Tau are still going to be in the game.

With loads of Skimmers able to move to the objectives and shoot the Rhinos down Tau have an advantage. Once the Rhino's die the Firewarriors can bail out en masse and probably get 2 rounds of rapid fire off as the EC are entangled.

Although Mech Tau is over rated they do not "want to dig in" they are going to be air mobile and lethal to a little anti-tank ground pounder Rhino Using EC army.
Actually, they are 6 man squads. 5 + a champ. How can they shoot the rhinoes down if they pop smoke? And when the smoke is over the rhino will simply be the cover for the dug in squad around the loot counter (this would prob be in the last few turns). Again, once the tau disembark they are cc meat. Plain and simple. I've never lost against a tau list. The "theories" of tau just shooting in and zooming to the loot are overrated. The EC aren't gong to zoom out into open cover yelling "shoot me so I can't move". Once the EC get into combat its over. Plain as you like.
 

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numberofthebeastxxx said:
Except they will be in combat. Unless the Tau just want to sit back and shoot. Your assuming the EC player is going to be stupid and run right in front of the tau guns. When it's the right moment the EC rhinos will just charge forward, pop smoke and let the squads out to gradb the loot (being covered by the rhinos of course). Plus we don't know the terrain. Most likely there will be some cover as well. The bikes can zip all around the board grabbing counters and resisting fire with their invulnerable turbo-boost saves. That is of course, if the tau player sits back and shoots as you say. But if they want the counters they're going to have to disembark, making them cc targets for the EC. The EC are not nids or khorne berzerkers, the tau can't win this contest by pulling them around on a leash. Plus, some of the tau transports will go down to shooting, putting even more tau in the open for a charge.
No, I'm assuming the far more mobile skimmers will find targets. For those tanks, it's really like shooting fish in a barrel. I realize that you like this list, but seriously, this isn't even a competition. The EC lacks firepower to take out the tanks, and if the Tau never deploy from the tanks, they can just run the length of the battlefield, blowing the crud out of the EC, and never entering cc. If those rhinos run forward and pop smoke, I ask you what they're going to do on the next turn. There isn't anything they can charge, minus the kroot and the broadside, which will die, but will also bring whatever squads take them out all the way to one side of the board.

The Tau isn't going to sit back, as I didn't say that. Rather, they're going to keep mobile and shoot. It doesn't matter if they run straight towards the EC, since they're in tanks and those tanks can't be charged effectively. Those bikes may turboboost, but eventually they're going to die, and nothing else even stands a chance. Also, it only takes 3 casualties, which isn't particularly difficult to pull off, to make them a non-scoring unit.

I predict that over the course of the entire game, one tau transport will be shot down. That'll probably be in the first 2 turns, when those havocs are still alive, but if the Tau play the outranging game, they can ensure that no one is within 36" and shoot with impervity, given their longer range.

After that, nothing can hurt the Tau tanks, so they can mosey accross the board, taking objectives on turn 6, but until then, just blowing the crud out of the EC, who can do nothing.

As a suggestion to whoever the EC player is: you need more firesupport. Particularly, ranged anti-tank in squads other than the havoc squads.

You asked "How can they shoot the rhinoes down if they pop smoke?" Answer, they wait till the next turn.

You say that once you get into combat it's over. Tell me, who do you think the EC list is going to charge? Once the Kroot and the Broadside die, there isn't anything that can be charged. This EC list is generally weak in this area, and is suffering for its area of weakness, IMO.

Oh yeah, statistically: (vs devilfish)
16 blastmaster shots
10 hits
5 glances (skimmers moving fast)
1 kill (decoy launchers). So if EVERY havoc fires at one devilfish, they'll probably take it down. However, with that short range (36"), they'll never get that chance. It's easy to make sure that all of the tanks play to one side of the board, so if the havocs are split, only one is in the game, and if they're together, the Tau can simply neutralize both. Sure they might be in cover, but cover won't be enough.
 

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Indeed, another point I'd bring up is the severe overestimation of those bike squads.

Yes, they have Turbo-boost giving them the invulnerable save. The save being invulnerable makes zero different to the Tau's method of taking them down, they will just hit them with massed S5 hits and take them out.

Sensible Tau player sees the bikes, he shoots once when they get inside his range and then bails back into their Devilfish and pulls back. The Bikers can't get into CC as the Tau player won't let them get inside 18", and trying to take down a Devilfish with only a meltabomb is a fools errand.

Rest of the EC army won't do zilch once those Rhinos are cracked open (which is easy to do for the Tau, they haven't a gun in their army that can't glance them, and smoke will make no difference). They are too slow to catch them, and even with their sonic weapons they can't return the same amount of firepower.

Two small havoc squads versus 7 tough skimmers.
 

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If it "isn't even a competition" then the tau would have overwhelming votes for them. But as it stands now it's a tie. So it's not just me boasting this list will win. There is at least reasonable doubt here, you must agree. It isn't as straight forward as it sounds, any terrain, for example, will favor the EC. But... let's just see how it plays out. I've stated my points, you've re-stated yours. So in the intrest of sportsmanship, lets just see. ^_^
 

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numberofthebeastxxx said:
If it "isn't even a competition" then the tau would have overwhelming votes for them. But as it stands now it's a tie. So it's not just me boasting this list will win. There is at least reasonable doubt here, you must agree. It isn't as straight forward as it sounds, any terrain, for example, will favor the EC. But... let's just see how it plays out. I've stated my points, you've re-stated yours. So in the intrest of sportsmanship, lets just see. ^_^
The Tau don't have overwhelming votes for them, because people don't seem to understand the mechanics of mech tau. They keep making ludicrous points like: "once the EC get into cc it's over." If the Tau are in tanks or out of charge range, there isn't anything that they can charge. I just feel obligated to point out why these are rediculous.
 

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Ghost of LO
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Well, its simply not true that the rihnos are impervious to firepower while smoke is poped, remember tau weapons are s5. That is why i suggested with 30" range, the first turn the tau deploy outside of their tanks, stopping 4 rihnos. Ive already run over the odds of MLs against devil fishes, its 1 a turn. Thats not good odds. The tau can mop up 6 man squads EXTREAMILY easily. So anyting that gets withen charge range will be whipped off the baord. Anything that "digs in" will be routed out.

What the EC list lacks is staying power. They have a lot of dudes, but 6 man squads are taken under 50% fast. Then they cant score.

Tau mech tactics: The greatest tau mech tactic ive ever played against was a dude at my local shop.

This tactic works like this, 2 devilfishes leave a 2 inch gap between them, and deploy in a wedge shape. The tau then get out behind these tanks, hugging the inside, the gun drops are manouvered seperatly, increasing the width of the tank by up to another 4 inches. Then everything shoots, infantry rapid firing. Its almost enough enough firepower to remove a squad of marines. REMEMBER you can see under skimmers and shoot through them, but you cant move through them. So, the EC list is denied the assault as its 2 far to run around, the tau get back in there vehicels and fly away, while, perhaps a different pair, ready to lauch the manouver next turn to clean up the remaining squad. The stratagry was brillant, he was the only player whos beat me at my local club.

This stratagry would work wounders against this EC list.

However i think wamp is incorrect about the EC list, its quiet good, its just that in this case, the mission favors tau, because killing 20 space marines is a task which they can easily achieve.

If this list where simply kill eachother, the EC would have much better chance. Far to often, CC ablity is underestminted in this vote war. Besides hord armies, CC is not respected at all on here, and in game terms it is one of the most devistating. why? because there are 12 assault phases.

I predict that over the course of the entire game, one tau transport will be shot down. That'll probably be in the first 2 turns, when those havocs are still alive, but if the Tau play the outranging game, they can ensure that no one is within 36" and shoot with impervity, given their longer range.
This is totally incorrect, 8 Rocket launcher shots is more then a match for 1 devil fish per turn. However, it is only one.

Wamp, you far over estimate eldar and in this case tau vehicels. while there is no doubt that besides the monolith, eldar and tau have the best tanks in the game. Glacing hits only is by no means all out protection. It does not take 6 dice to be rolling, for a 6 to come up. No matter the number of times the dice are rolled there is always a 16% chance that these tanks will die, once glanced.

As a suggestion to whoever the EC player is: you need more firesupport. Particularly, ranged anti-tank in squads other than the havoc squads.
This is totally devoyed of fact, ALL his models have a 24 inch assault 2 or heavy 3 bolter. Thats pretty darn good fire support. Especially against armies like eldar. This tau list doesnt have 8S weapons, yet the EC list does. The idea that this EC list needs more shooty support is simply ignorance on your part.

EC can basically out shoot this tau list. But the tau are more mobile. What the chaos player needs is better transports. unfrantly, infiltrate is the only thing he can really subsistue for them, but that cant be used every game. One of the stupidest rules, all standard missions should be played with all the rules, otherwise your paying for something you arent getting. Or, rihnos need to be less horrible.

I vote EC on fluff, btw.
 
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