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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
I need some help with this list. I'm used playing Tau and Imperial Guard, so making a chaos army is quite a chalange for me.
I'm making a fast CC-army. point is, I want all my CC units to be fast, and arrive at my enemy earlier then he wants, and have backupfire from behind for tanks and such. this is my list, but something's not right here. I've removed the Bloodthirster, but maybe I shouldn't.

HQ (220 pts)
Chaos Lord
Equipment : Deamonic Armour, Flight, Mutation, Resilience, Stature,
Furious Charge
Gifts of Khorne: Mark of Khorne, Berserker Glaive, Rage of Khorne


Elite (375 pts)
2 Obliterators (140 pts)

5 Chosen Terminators (220 pts)
Equipment:Chainfist


Troops (396 pts)
2* 10 Chaos Space Marines (198 pts)
Rhino: Extra Armour, Smoke Launchers


Fast Attack (338 pts)
10 Chaos Raptors (1 Asp Champion) (338 pts)
Furious Assault
Asp champ : Power Fist, Deamonic Mutation, Furious Assault


Heavy Support (253 pts)
Land Raider
Smokes

It needs some changes, cause this is 1567 points, and I want to keep it 1500 points at first.
 

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Simple Green.
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Your DP is illegal, with the Berserker Glaive you cannot have any movement modes (i.e. flight, speed, bike, etc.) Unless you are very much attached to the glaive, I would recommend dropping it for a dark blade and ccw, freeing up 14 points....
 

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Other then what was already corrected in your other thread, I say either drop the rhinos in favor of Infiltrate, or drop a few Raptors.
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
I could dump the rhino's and make then infiltrate, adding a mark of khorne. that also makes then more suitable for the idea of my army.
 

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Librarian from Hell
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You cannot combine infiltrate with the mark of Khorne.

I agree on dropping them rhinos in favor of infiltrate, you should in the same time drop a couple of models and give the two troops an aspiring champion each, give him Power fist. Try to get some special weapons into those squads too, 2 Melta guns would be quite fitting.

The Codex:Chaos is quite a tricky one. It has many things hidden in difficult to find places (like pages with no pictures) I suggest you read it through a couple of times extra. I've been a keen reader for a couple of years and still new things keep poping up.
I guess it's all very much in line with the character of the deities.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
well, if you know where it's told you can't combine MArk of Khorne with infiltrate, please tell me:). it's no big deal though, saves up points. and oblitirators having T4 instead of 5 are not worth it, so they can be "killed" as well as the rhino's. which saves up a lot of points.
adding a squad of possessed with deamonic flight, asp champ with powerfist?
 

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Librarian from Hell
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The infiltrate/Khorne thing is under Infiltrate in the armoury, p19.

Flying possessed are very expensive compared to their survivabilty and effectiveness.

Give the Khornate Champ Talsiman of Burning Blood as a mean to move faster, a powerfist to deal with the things he must charge and give the whole unit Chainaxes..

Use the rest of the points to bulk up on the Troops. However tempting the überunits of Chaos are, awsome stats and endless opportunities, they tend to die and take quite a few points with them. The Troops are a much better option IMO.

You have already spent quite a lot of points on the HQ, HS and Elites. Near half your points goes there (and that's if you drop the Oblits).

There aer some not so fancy, yet frigthening units you could field. The infiltrating four plasmaguns Havocsquad is one. Damons are another. Bloodletters are mean. Mean in a very mean way.
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Did you keep the termi's and the LR or did you "kill" them? cause I think there to expensive on 1500 points. how about adding more Kornate berserkers (CSM) and also adding a greater deamon? if I still have points, Havoc's. or maybe a dreadnought to kill tanks.
 

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Librarian from Hell
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I would recommend you to take a look on some of the other lists with a Khornate theme that are on this board. You'll soon see a pattern of good choices, a pattern you could use as a basis for further design.
The Troops are indeed where to be spending as they have a relly good destruction potential. The Elites are but a little better and much more expensive.
They are very good for flavouring the army though, but they should be used like that. Do not make a salt-soup, or fried curry-powder with a touch of chicken.
If you wait a moment I will link you some.

I couldn't find them... Though I know they are out there.

So, I'll give you some things that comes up often.

The Glaive is not such a great weapon after all, since it denies you the enhanced move. Darkblade is the way to go. You can always give him a bike to reach CC as soon as possible.
Stature is also bad as you can be picked out by enemy fire.
8-man units of Berzerkers if you go for a pure World Eaters army.
Champ needs powerfist and Talisman of Burning Blood.
Bikers in (rather)big squads are great for the "daemon bomb" Damonic Chains on Champ and an Icon to summon Bloodletters near enemy and fast.
Have some AntiTank-Tank. Pred with turret autocannon and Lascan sposons. Daemonic Possession is No1 upgrade.
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Meaning my whole list is worthless. I won't go for pure WE, cause I wanna use Raptors. Also, I don't like the deamons like bloodletters, so I will try to avoid using them.

Andusciassus said:
The Glaive is not such a great weapon after all, since it denies you the enhanced move. Darkblade is the way to go. You can always give him a bike to reach CC as soon as possible.
Stature is also bad as you can be picked out by enemy fire.
8-man units of Berzerkers if you go for a pure World Eaters army.
Champ needs powerfist and Talisman of Burning Blood.
Bikers in (rather)big squads are great for the "daemon bomb" Damonic Chains on Champ and an Icon to summon Bloodletters near enemy and fast.
Have some AntiTank-Tank. Pred with turret autocannon and Lascan sposons. Daemonic Possession is No1 upgrade.
Darkblade is what my HQ had before I found berserker Glaive. But can't you use a transport either?

so help me, what would you add/remove in this list?
 

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Librarian from Hell
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Chaos Lord
Equipment : Deamonic Armour, Flight, Mutation, Resilience, Stature,
Furious Charge
Gifts of Khorne: Mark of Khorne, Berserker Glaive, Rage of Khorne
Illegalities apart, I would tune down the HQ, keep him cheap and effective. Bike, Aura and Darkblade. Mark of Khorne and that's it, maybe add some nice Khornate stuff for flavour.


2 Obliterators (140 pts)
Obliterators are good, but three makes them so much more durable.

5 Chosen Terminators (220 pts)
Equipment:Chainfist
In a 1500 I would leave those guys at the Barge.



2* 10 Chaos Space Marines (198 pts)
Rhino: Extra Armour, Smoke Launchers
Infiltrate and Champs, smaller squads as mentioned. Give the CSMs MoCU and Bolt pistol/ Close combat weapons and two special weapons a squad. And get more squads. I would like to have at least four units.
Try to fit in a unit or two of Berzerkers (remember Talisman, Powerfist and Chainaxes)

10 Chaos Raptors (1 Asp Champion) (338 pts)
Furious Assault
Asp champ : Power Fist, Deamonic Mutation, Furious Assault
10 is quite a few of these expensive guys. How about 8? Since they do not have MoCU (Mark o Chaos Undivided) they might take Infiltrate too. Give them a couple of meltaguns.

Get a unit of Khornate Bikers, they seem to be really something.


I'd drop the Landraider too. Better to get a couple of predators, one Autocannon/heavy bolter and one Autocannon/Las-sponsons.

This is however my thoughts, I play Thousand Sons and they are very different. Hopefully someone better suited will take you from here.
 

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Nope. Bezerker Glaive is one of those things that looks too good to be true and is. You pay almost half your max Demonic Gifts on that one upgrade. And what you get for it isn't worth it. Sure, the guaranteed Blood Frenzy looks good but once you stop and think about it, it's more of a dissadvantage than an advantage.

Dark Blade is definatly the way to go if you want to kill troops.

Dread Axe if you want to kill characters.

Stature is great. Just rush him into combat with Speed.

If you don't want a pure WE list then I say stay away from more then half your troops as Khorne Bezerkers. Bezerkers can't upgrade their guns, won't end up shooting half the time, and get pretty expensive pretty quickly.

For Preds try and stay under 170 points, unless you have everything you want and have extra points.
 

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Sorry to go off topic here, but what is it you like about raptors? I think if I compare the advantages of going for WE to raptors that you may go for WE. If you use them for fluff reasons, well I won't bother trying because I won't mess with a player and his fluff, because thats what makes this game a lot more fun for some of us. Also, again for Bloodletters, they are my cheapest source of power weapons in an army. They do incredible damage against other units, and well, I love them. But if its fluff, I won't touch it.

Soviet_Tau_Commander said:
Nope. Bezerker Glaive is one of those things that looks too good to be true and is. You pay almost half your max Demonic Gifts on that one upgrade. And what you get for it isn't worth it. Sure, the guaranteed Blood Frenzy looks good but once you stop and think about it, it's more of a dissadvantage than an advantage.
In my opinoin, losing free movement isn't all that bad if you can deploy well enough, and take down any fast units that will turn him into a puppet. If you can't do that in the size game your playing, don't take it. I think the glaive is a great weapon, but suited to very few lists.
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 · (Edited)
Ok let's try again. concidering gifts of the gods are deamonic gifts.

HQ (410 pts)
Chaos Lord
Equipment : Deamonic Armour, Flight, Mutation, Stature,
Furious Charge, Dark Blade
Gifts of Khorne: Mark of Khorne, Rage of Khorne, Feel no Pain

Greater deamon of Khorne, Bloodthirster 205


Elite (140 pts)
2 Obliterators (140 pts)


Troops (471 pts)
8 Chaos Space Marines (196 pts)
MoCU, infiltrate, CCW, Bolt Pistol, 2* meltagun
ASP CHAMP: Powerfist, Boltpistol, infiltrate, MoCU

8 Chaos Space Marines (275 pts)
MoK(horne), Khornate chainaxe, Talisman of Burning Blood, Bolt Pistol
ASP CHAMP:PowerFist, boltpistol, CCW, Talisman of burning blood, MoK


Fast Attack (317 pts)
8 Chaos Raptors (1 Asp Champion) (317 pts)
Furious Assault, MoCU
Asp champ : Power Fist, Deamonic Mutation, Furious Assault, MoCU


Heavy Support (155 pts)
Predator (155)
Linked Lascannon turret, lascannon sponsors, deamonic possession.


Which will be a total of 1493 points. Looking better?
 

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Much. However, units with the Mark of Khorne cannot have infiltrate. I would use those exta 24 points to give your Predator the turret mounted Twinlinked Lascannon.

Or

Give your troops Frag Grenades.

I'm pretty sure Demonic Weapons do count twoards the Demonic Gift total. Curse GW for making the chaos errata unavailable. I'm 90% certain what counted for Demonic gifts was listed in it. I will ask the guy who first showed me it for a link.
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 · (Edited)
Damn I knew that. didn't realise it though:p. too bad it's only 24 points, cause if it where 50, I'd put the berserkers in transport. anyway, a linked lascannon turret is great aswell.
or I could give the berserkers Furious Charge.


Just one problem. which unit should act as the deamon vessel? cause it's a waste of points kill one of my asp champs as they are tooled too much. tit'll cost me powerfist attacks.
 

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Librarian from Hell
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It looks much better. A couple of things though...

I think you have quite a bit to much invested in your HQ.
The Bloodthirster is quite enough for über-cc-ability.
If you drop the lord and use those points to get one more troop you would have a much more solid core.
You could even have another unit of CSMs and one Obliterator.
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
No. if I drop something, it'll be the greater deamon. But I like to use both, allthough killing an ASP CHAMP for it maight be a bit of a waste.......
 

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Unless you have one with no upgrades in a squad of 5. Maybe give him Demonic Chains.
 
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