Yes, you could have teleported the lord through the monolith and get a extra WBB roll.hauser said:1) Can a Necron Lord with Res. orb use the Monolith to reroll the WBB if he failed his first WBB roll?
I recently fought against Blood Angels, and my Lord was killed with power weapons. He wasn't joined to another group and he failed his WBB roll. The Monolith was within 18" range, so could he have been teleportet through the Monolith and allowed an extra WBB roll, or does that only count if the Lord has joined a group of necron warriors etc?
in the faq they say that extra penetration dice and doubling scores are much the same thing, that concludes me that powerfists do nog double there scores.hauser said:2) The GWs FAQ regarding the Monolith:
"When attacking a Monolith, extra penetration dice and doubling scores are much the same thing - don't count any bonus penetration of any sort against a Monolith."
Does this mean that powerfists weapons does not roll with strength 8 or 9 when hitting the Monolith but with the Marines basic strength 4?
What about grenades, do they get their full dice rolls against Monolith?
I disagree with your conclusion.Tdh6002 said:in the faq they say that extra penetration dice and doubling scores are much the same thing, that concludes me that powerfists do nog double there scores.
(source: http://uk.games-workshop.com/chapterapproved/faq/assets/necrons-faq-v4-0.pdf)
(Emphasis mine)In practice, any weapon attacking the Monolith will roll for armour penetration using its unaugmented strength and a single D6 no matter what.
But, the witchblade does not give the user strength 9. Only when he tries to penetrate a vehicle does the weapon count as strength 9. Therefore I see a difference between the two, and thats why I think witchblades are negated by the monolith.The_Outsider said:As it says unaguamented strength for the weapon, powerfists and witchblades supplement the users's strength, they don't have a S value like say, a lascannon.
Thats how I see things.
Even though the powerfist is not a weapon (it's a kitchen utensil) I wouldn't give it S8, as the rule is worded. No CC weapons that can think of (notice, can think of..) has their own strength. They simply use that of the wielder. This would also includes the huge curling irons the S&M SoB wields.Arizzar said:I disagree with your conclusion.
This is a discussion of semantics that GW could have spared us by just making a simple list of what works and what does not.
Here is the way I read the words.
(Emphasis mine)
Notice the word "weapon". Any weapon attacking the monolith will use its unaugmented strength. As an example, a witchblade would attack the monolith with strength 3 instead of the usual strength 9 since the latter is achieved by multiplying the wielders strength...
Arizzar
Yes, that was my point exactly.Sleepy said:The reason I see power fists as a weapon that augments its users strength is because otherwise the marine would be S4. So if the only difference is the weapon he is equipped with, I would say the weapon is making him stronger.
But the dreadnougth in WD was able to kill the monolith in cc.The dreadnought would not be able to kill that monolith, no matter how many cc weapons it has. Now if that dreadnought had a lascannon, that monolith better be careful.
It is different because a guy with a witchblade does not have strength 9. He has strength 3. When he tries to penetrate a vehicle the witchblade attacks with strength 9. This is a bonus to penetration, and thus negated by the monolith.Arizzar. How is tripling the users strength and doubling the users strength different? (besides the end result) If the witchblade cannot be used as S9, why would the power fist be any different?
Yes, that is the point. A powerfist does not have a strength value. It is wielded by a guy who has.tolvmannen said:Even though the powerfist is not a weapon (it's a kitchen utensil) I wouldn't give it S8, as the rule is worded. No CC weapons that can think of (notice, can think of..) has their own strength. They simply use that of the wielder.
That is a damn good point.LordCreampuff said:What if a marine player had both a power fist and a power sword on the same model? It is a completely legal build but the marine player would have to decide which weapon to use each turn. By your argument the power fist would double the marine's strength when using the power sword! This is simply not the case. If the marine uses the PF then his STR is 8. If he uses the PS then hist STR is 4. If this isn't the case then every maring sergeant would have both a PF and PS to remove the detriment to the hidden powerfist maneuver.
Thus a power fist wielded by a marine with a STR 4 attacks as if he had a STR 8 (if he uses the PF). This is augmented strength any way you look at it and will therefore NOT double the STR of the model weilding it. This is the same as the Eldar Witchblades. However, dreadnought CCW are different with 4th edition. They aren't classified as power weapons any more so they simply raise the models statline STR to 10. These can effect the monolith as normal.
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The dreadnought CCW is now a different classification than a powerfist. Older codex (Eldar comes to mind) they described the dreadnought CCW as a powerfist but the BGB changed that. I believe the dreadnought CCW now increases the dreadnought statline STR to 10, not simply doubling it as a powerfist does. I'm not 100% sure on this though. But if I am correct then dreadnoughts would hit the monolith with a STR of 10.Sleepy said:Thanks Lord Cream Puff. I hadn't even thought of using the power fist and power sword combo as an example.
So the dreads in 4'th now can take down monoliths, OK. I could have sworn that I saw somewhere that they don't because the extra arm (or whatever they use) doubles their strength the same way as a power fist, but I doubt they could get close enough. Dropping a pie plate on it for as many turns as I can back up is a nice way to kill a dread.
Isn't that in the rule book? or marine FAQ? That the dread can't get a weapon that is over S10 because of its add-on that doubles its strength? Yes, it is in the rule book. Page 73 says that dreads close combat weapons double their strength, so it is just like a power fist.
Even if it could hurt a monolith, the lith has a nearly unlimited turns of attempting to drop a pie plate on it. Just back up and hope your roll a hit.
Yes, it would be 10.LordCreampuff said:The dreadnought CCW is now a different classification than a powerfist. Older codex (Eldar comes to mind) they described the dreadnought CCW as a powerfist but the BGB changed that. I believe the dreadnought CCW now increases the dreadnought statline STR to 10, not simply doubling it as a powerfist does. I'm not 100% sure on this though. But if I am correct then dreadnoughts would hit the monolith with a STR of 10.
