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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I’ve been wanting to get my guard army back on the board for the last 3 months, originally it was a very balanced list relying on drop troops doctrine to claim objectives. Now it seems the only way for a guard army to be competitive is to be all mech.

At first I thought the ‘it’s cold outside’ mech setup (vets never get out the chimera) was excellent but one thing is seriously bugging me and that’s the chimera.

It can be harmed by anything with at least strength 4 in combat, hitting on 4s as you can’t move 12 without sacrificing the vet squad’s shooting phase and you need to get within 12 of the enemy to do any real damage in the first place.
And to make matters worst if your opponents stuns the chimera it will suffer automatic hits the next turn which will do even more damage. The extra armour is just too expensive.

So can someone please tell me the benefits of a veteran mech army and how you deal with this huge akeley's heel? As well as how tips and tactics about how to play such an army?
 

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Drill Sergeant
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I've played a Gunline army for years (alright maybe 16) and while i find them alot easier to use I aslo find them incredibly boring.

Sure enemies of Str4 can hurt you in combat. Try and stay out of Charge range if you can is the obvious retort to that but there are other deterants. Units such as the PCS or a Vet Squad armed with 4 or 3 Flamers respectively can deter assalters such as Orks or nids. If Marines Assault my Mech lists and stun the Chimera, My Veterans get out and Flame them or throw a Democharge in their Face.


Look on the Bright side. If they have only stunned your vehicle they havent killed it which means your guys are alive for another turn at least. All this while his unit is now lined up against your vehicle in a firing line set up.
 

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Think of this this way. If your opponent runs up and smacks your Chimera (why did you let him get that close?) then your little guys will spill out. Meaning that the initiative is yours. You can now counter-assault or rapid fire at him because he wasted his turn getting you out of your transport.

If it was only Crew Stunned or something, you can always go back in afterwards.

You should also always have a hull Heavy Flamer on it to deter any horde armies getting too close. But at the end of the day, you need to see the Chimera for what it really is. Just one more layer of protection for your men. It will get destroyed, immobilised and stunned, of course it will. But one turn your enemy spends doing that, is one turn he spends not shooting at something more important. Like your troops, tanks or valkyries.

Use your Chimeras to deny him targets. Tank Shocking works well to push him away from stunned vehicles, you can also "box him in" using vehicles. Use terrain features to your advantage and you can effectively herd him around by blocking certain avenues of movement. Use wrecked or immobilised vehicles as cover for your men and to halt his advance.

This will cause a problem for him: does he destroy the vehicle blocking his path or pursue other tactical goals? Ultimately, either path buys you more time. Not to mention if the vehicle is Wrecked, he can't remove it.

Pull this off right and you can almost dictate your opponent's movement to him, giving you more control of the game.

This is why mechanised armies are so effective, not because it offers you better protection.
 

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durus
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I played Mech Grenadiers back in 4th ed very competitivly, but Mech is that much better now.

1> New damage tables make killing vehicles that much harder.
2> Chimeras, while less effective at long range shooting, became a lot cheaper and one of the best transports in the game for the points.
3> We now have Valks/Vendettas! Why not take these uber effective and inexpensive transports?
4> We have some new tanks and tank rules. Gone are sponsons, but you can move and shoot one hull weapon with your battle cannon. Now Hellhounds and their variants are Fast vehicles, oh ya!!!!
5> Mech lets you take the fight to enemy instead of waiting for him to take it to you.
 

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And remember chimeras have AV12 on the front. I find this a huge advantage as you need at least strength 7 to kill it. Most weapons that are cheaply spammed or have lots of shots are less than this, and this means the enemy has to use dedicated antitank units against them. In my experience AV11 dies alot faster than AV12.
 

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I think it is also worth noting that Meching up also protects you from psychic powers, and from being assaulted by hordes.

Ravendove also hits on an important concept: it gives you two armies on the table in a way. Your enemy has to kill the mechanized army to get to be able to TRY and kill the infantry army inside the transports, while the guys that are getting out of their wrecked transports get a round of shooting at the guys who just killed their ride.

Mech lets you take long range potshots at things while advancing, and greatly increases the survivability of your troops as they move into position to make their shots count. mobility gives you more exacting choices for shot placement, and for denying shots from your enemy.
 

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A very strong tactic is to place 4-5 ML/HF chimeras side by side in a line, and then cap both of the ends off with a Battle Tank or Demolisher. This way, if the enemy shoots at you, they have to deal with nothing less than AV12 as you advance (all of the AV10 side armors are covered). If they try to charge you, they are running headlong into a lot of fiery death as well as any weapons the squads inside might have.
 

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What about weapons? I originally was going for mass meltaguns but they seem very risky as I need to get within 12 of the enemy to shoot them but risk being charged in turn?
Well, I play a heavily mechanized (2 Russes, 5-6 chimeras) list, but I always keep at least on platoon with 2-3 squads on foot to hold objectives so they cover Anti-transport.

Meltaguns are popular because of the versatility and tank-busting ability. I tend to use 2-3 squads and I usually take 1 squad of plasma veterans such in case something needs a high-AP rapid-firing.

Other than those two, grenade launchers maybe? Really my favorite two are melta and plasma (maybe only 1 plasma squad per list)



Really I've found the benefits out way the risks with melta. So what if you lose a chimera? The squad can still move around and kill things and if you take multiples, well, no real loss.
 

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Well, I play a heavily mechanized (2 Russes, 5-6 chimeras) list, but I always keep at least on platoon with 2-3 squads on foot to hold objectives so they cover Anti-transport.

Meltaguns are popular because of the versatility and tank-busting ability. I tend to use 2-3 squads and I usually take 1 squad of plasma veterans such in case something needs a high-AP rapid-firing.

Other than those two, grenade launchers maybe? Really my favorite two are melta and plasma (maybe only 1 plasma squad per list)



Really I've found the benefits out way the risks with melta. So what if you lose a chimera? The squad can still move around and kill things and if you take multiples, well, no real loss.
I would have to agree. My take is, that IG are about numbers. As an IG commander you are going to take casualties, but in the same vein you can afford to take them better than anyone else. As far as I have read, no other army can field the number of units we can, so casualties hurt us less. (Except for kp games)
 

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What about weapons? I originally was going for mass meltaguns but they seem very risky as I need to get within 12 of the enemy to shoot them but risk being charged in turn?
Instead of weapon ranges, let's talk threat ranges. It's much more useful.

1) 12" deployment + 12" melta range = 24" threat.
2) 12" deployment + 6" move + 12" melta range = 30" threat.
3) 12" deployment + 12" move + 2" disembark + 12" melta range = 38" threat.

And for Stormtroopers:

4) 12" deployment + 12" scout move + 12" move + 2" disembark + 12" melta range = 50" threat (44" for getting that 2nd pen die). Impressed? :)

Think of your Chimeras as a melta delivery system. Options 1 and 2 get you into mid-field while still being well protected. This is where you'll kill the half of the other guy's tanks that your Vendettas and Hydras haven't killed already. As well as mopping up infantry with your flamers.

Options 3 and 4 kill high-value targets like Land Raiders, Russes, and Ork Battlewagons in their own deployment zone (or laterally across the board) at the expense of probably losing the squad. But hey, it's worth losing a squad or two if you can make Termies or Nobs walk into the rest of your army's fire.
 

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What about weapons? I originally was going for mass meltaguns but they seem very risky as I need to get within 12 of the enemy to shoot them but risk being charged in turn?
I tend to go for a healthy mix of Melta Vets and Plasma CCS', because I fight a lot of Tyranids and I like having the MC punching power. Again, don't worry if you get charged. If you Chimera gets destroyed - it's done it's job.
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
Again, don't worry if you get charged. If you Chimera gets destroyed - it's done it's job.
But then the vets get butched with their 5+ armour? That what bugs me, this is how i feel a game would go with mech guard.

1. chimera drives up pops smoke,
2. do a drive by shooting on enemy unit,
3. chimera take damage and troops bail out and pelt enemy unit,
4. units gets shot or/and assaulted and cut down.
 

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In have 3 melta squads in chimeras, in the last five games I've played, only 1-2 of the squads are killed. Besides them I have a plasma squad and a platoon on foot to hold objectives and plenty of other vehicles to contest objectives.

The key, like everything else, is playing them wisely. They don't have to be suicide units if you don't want them to be.

Next time I play a game I'll link a battle report to show you what I kind of do.
 

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This is a good idea IMO. You should drop one or two vets for a good solid platoon with autocannons. This will always give you numbers and a strong fallback, as well as good fire support for the remaining vets who are advancing.

With platoon support you dont have to worry about driving 12" and not shooting because the platoon can still make the shots.
 

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But then the vets get butched with their 5+ armour? That what bugs me, this is how i feel a game would go with mech guard.

1. chimera drives up pops smoke,
2. do a drive by shooting on enemy unit,
3. chimera take damage and troops bail out and pelt enemy unit,
4. units gets shot or/and assaulted and cut down.
Sounds about right. But keep this in mind: this unit only costs 155 points. They are cheap and, ultimately, expendable because you have several of them. Furthermore, slobulous highlighted a very useful strategy when it comes to multiple Chimelta squads. The Chimera Wall.

Keep Chimeras side by side so that the only armour exposed to shooting is Front. Then if one gets destroyed by a CC unit, your troops bail out from the rear. In your next turn, turn a Chimera on it's side so the 'hole in the wall' is plugged: you now have masses of rapid-fire plasma and melta shots combined with heavy flamers and shotguns/lasguns against an enemy that can't get to you. You can also use the Chimeras as rolling cover for the bailed out units.

Your Guardsmen will get shot up and killed. You are Imperial Guard. Don't try playing them as Space Marines.
 

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But then the vets get butched with their 5+ armour? That what bugs me, this is how i feel a game would go with mech guard.

1. chimera drives up pops smoke,
2. do a drive by shooting on enemy unit,
3. chimera take damage and troops bail out and pelt enemy unit,
4. units gets shot or/and assaulted and cut down.
They're really not that fragile. Typically it takes at least 2 turns for say, Orks to kill a moving tank. On the first assault turn, if the Chimera moved 6", they might stun or immobilize it. While it usually takes the auto-hits of a power klaw in the second assault phase to actually pop it.

In the meantime, the enemy unit is huddled up very nicely around the stunned/immobilized Chimera. Making them an excellent target for your other Chimeras (never run them alone!). This is also when a trailing Demolisher or Hellhound will pay for itself many times over. :)

If immobilized, the vets inside the Chimera can still fire. If stunned they can always get out and either retreat or set up a firing line while the Orks finish off the Chimera. If you have a CCS chimera moving up too, this is a great time to issue some orders.
 

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Next time I play a game I'll link a battle report to show you what I kind of do.
Good idea.

Here's some good battle reports I've already done for my mech IG:
the back 40k: Battle Report: Tallarn vs. The Death Korps of Krieg
the back 40k: Off to War in the Man Cave
the back 40k: Dude! Where's My Advance?

In the first game, you'll see just how impervious a mech force is to the old-style IG drop-troop spam. In the other 2 games, you'll see how mech-on-mech works as I fight Farmpunk's sisters.
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
Your Guardsmen will get shot up and killed. You are Imperial Guard. Don't try playing them as Space Marines.
Yeah but guard army often have the huge amount of troops to get through so losing 30 guys wasn't a big deal in my old army, but my mech guard army only has 45 bodies which makes losing a squad a big blow to the army even with the 10 vehciles supporting them?
 

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Yeah but guard army often have the huge amount of troops to get through so losing 30 guys wasn't a big deal in my old army, but my mech guard army only has 45 bodies which makes losing a squad a big blow to the army even with the 10 vehciles supporting them?
Really, it's just not that big a problem. Here's a couple of pics from a game I had recently against an Ork mob list.

First the deployment. I think that's around 140 Orks there (with a KFF), to my 45 mech infantry.



And the final (fuzzy) pic after I tabled him.



Total lost: 2 Chimeras (But all squads alive), 1 Hellhound, 3 Sentinels

This is pretty typical of most games I have vs. Orks.
 
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