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Hive Fleet Pandora
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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I own a Bio-titan and I'm sad to say that I will now rarely use him in my Apoc battles. Not because he isn't any good, but because now with the new Nid dex, he's too good. He's nigh invincible, and I don't think my friends want to face him anymore after getting whupped.

On top of his already impressive stats, now he's got a 3++ Invuln due to the new Warp Field. He just draws so much fire that the rest of my army is free to advance mainly unmolested (at least the big 'uns). And to top it off, they still can't kill him. Sighh...poor Bio-titan. Now go to sleep in storage....at least until I play against unsuspecting new Apoc players. Heh, heh....
 

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I always thaught that in apocalypse, You use the rules the certaing unit/titan/bio-titan were designed for...>.>
But if thats true I want one!!!! you see I really don't like my clubs powergamers.. and would like to make them cry.
 

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Hive Fleet Pandora
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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
I always thaught that in apocalypse, You use the rules the certaing unit/titan/bio-titan were designed for...>.>
But if thats true I want one!!!! you see I really don't like my clubs powergamers.. and would like to make them cry.
Yes, but a lot of the rules still refer to their respective codices. For instance, in the apoc book, it doesn't describe what Warp Field or Lash Whips are/does. In that case, you have to refer to the newest version of the codex for those powers.


Reaver Titan
Warhound Titan
Eldar Revenant (iffy)
No, none of those can, at least not before the Bio-titan gets rid of them. The Hierophant has 16 S10 shots to deal with those titans. Combine that with its potential 30" charge range means all super-heavies are dead if it really wanted to kill them. What's even nastier is if you give the army Flank March. That thought is just too scary. BTW, the Reaver is easily 2x the cost of the Hierophant and yet would get smashed very easily by it.
 

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I know what would have a damn good go, the 6 calidus assasin apoc formation. With them ignoring both sets of saves id imagine theyd shred it quite nicely. Only problem is i think its T8+ isnt it so they able to wound it. Is there something that lowers the toughness of opposing units? if so then that seems to be your awnser.

Other than that, the 6 vindicare option seems like it might work, 6 of them loosing off sheild breaker and then hellfire ought to cause some damage. I dont think doom ( the eldar power) would effect the bio titan would it, but if it did then that would help too.

Or what about this. A cluexus assasin nearby to reduce the leadership to 7, bring down doom of malanthi. I dont belive spirt leech is a psychic attack, so it only takes one high roll and that thing is toast. Assuming a few failed saves anyway.

I was also going to surgest a librarian with null zone, but again i dont think the heirophant would be affected would it.

Other alternatives would be; Bloodthristers, lead by skarbrand or A massed charge of powerfisting khorne/tzeentch champion chaos terminators, lead by abbadon/equally hard character.

One last thing but its not lilkley, several deamonhunters LRCs with psycannon bolts, and hoping for a lot of rends.


If your looking to ballance it a bit, why not let it be effected by certain psychic powers, such as doom or null zone. That might even things up a bit. Obviously youve then got to watch out for JOTWW but thats a side effect.

Anyway hope one of those turns out to be practicle.
 

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Last laugh on lukas the trickster.
 

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Supreme Evil Overlord
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You can play with it accodring to the new waprfield rules but then you should bump it's cost by a considerable margin, at least 2000 I would say, or make a ruling along with your friends.
 

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Hive Fleet Pandora
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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
It would be just stupid to play him with 2+/3++. I tested it and we got back to 2+/6++ in turn 3 because it was not funny! Apocalypse is not about rules, it is about. Go and have fun by playing with "Rules is interpreted".
I agree. If it's too powerful or your opponent cannot handle it, then you should tone it down. After all, it's all about having fun. However, you are perfectly within your rights to claim the 3++, though if my opponent couldn't handle it, I'd compromise with a 4++, 5++ or even the old 6++ WF. I usually ask my opponents anyways if they want to take on my Hierophant and let them know exactly how tough it is to kill. If they say no, I don't use it.


QFT

If you still want to play with your model there is a very simple solution.
What's that?


Last laugh on lukas the trickster.
Nope. The Hierophant is not a "Warlord-class Titan". It's a gargantuan creature, not a super-heavy.


You can play with it accodring to the new waprfield rules but then you should bump it's cost by a considerable margin, at least 2000 I would say, or make a ruling along with your friends.
Instead of bumping up the cost, I'd rather "tone down" the WF to a 4++ or 5++. I think they can more readily handle that.
 

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Hive Fleet Pandora
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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
I know what would have a damn good go, the 6 calidus assasin apoc formation. With them ignoring both sets of saves id imagine theyd shred it quite nicely. Only problem is i think its T8+ isnt it so they able to wound it. Is there something that lowers the toughness of opposing units? if so then that seems to be your awnser.
Nope, S4 cannot hurt T9. There's nothing that lowers Toughness that I can think of.

Other than that, the 6 vindicare option seems like it might work, 6 of them loosing off sheild breaker and then hellfire ought to cause some damage. I dont think doom ( the eldar power) would effect the bio titan would it, but if it did then that would help too.
Nope. Sniper/poisoned weapons wound GC's on 6's only. Doom wouldn't work. GC's are immune to psychic powers.

Or what about this. A cluexus assasin nearby to reduce the leadership to 7, bring down doom of malanthi. I dont belive spirt leech is a psychic attack, so it only takes one high roll and that thing is toast. Assuming a few failed saves anyway.
Unlikely to happen, considering all the gribblies and other TMC's surrounding the Hierophant. Also, it's new WF gives it a good chance to survive Spirit Leech, though I like that idea. It'll be weird seeing Tyranid vs Tyranid duking it out in Apoc though. They're usually on the same team fighting against the Imperium.

I was also going to surgest a librarian with null zone, but again i dont think the heirophant would be affected would it.
Actually I used that in 1 game against the Hierophant. At that time, we totally forgot that it was immune and actually managed to kill it with 2 turns of heavy fire and then assault.

Other alternatives would be; Bloodthristers, lead by skarbrand or A massed charge of powerfisting khorne/tzeentch champion chaos terminators, lead by abbadon/equally hard character.
You'd need a lot of Bloodthirsters and/or terminators. I'd say at least 8 BT's or 30 terminators to get the job done.

One last thing but its not lilkley, several deamonhunters LRCs with psycannon bolts, and hoping for a lot of rends.
Unfortunately, DH assault cannons suck majorly (I also play pure Grey Knights). They're only assault 3 with NO rending.

If your looking to ballance it a bit, why not let it be effected by certain psychic powers, such as doom or null zone. That might even things up a bit. Obviously youve then got to watch out for JOTWW but thats a side effect.

Anyway hope one of those turns out to be practicle.
I guess we did do that in our last game - psychic powers that did not affect it directly (Null Zone) did work. Though if my opponent had remembered, he would've probably said no. Oh well, at least I can claim that I've killed one of those suckers even with it's new 3++ WF.
 

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Last laugh does 2 instant wounds its been discussed on many fourms.

Alot of scout sniper rifles.
 

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Hive Fleet Pandora
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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
Just because the Last Laugh has been discussed on many forums doesn't make it right. As a matter of fact, on "some" of those forums, I was the proponent that it doesn't work and let me tell you why. If you're going to classify the Hierophant as a "warlord-class titan" because that is the Rules-as-Intended (RAI), I'm going to have to say the Last Laugh would have to be classified as "any attack that would normally kill a model automatically (like a force weapon, an attack that kills as a result of a failed Characteristic test, etc.) Such attacks cause D3 wounds instead." (Apocalypse rulebook, p. 91) meaning it would only cause D3 wounds to any of the GC's. Now if you want to get RAW and say that the Last Laugh doesn't "kill a model", I'm going to have to use RAW to say the Hierophant is not a "warlord-class titan".


I guess a lot of sniper rifles could work, though you'd be looking at snipers in the 100's...not very efficient use of points at all. They only wound it on 6's and it gets its 3++. Better to use those snipers to take down carnifexes, trygons, hive tyrants and other tyranid regular units than to waste them on the Hierophant.
 

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Hive Fleet Pandora
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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
The phrase that I quoted.

Does poison work on it? If so, one or two squads of hormagaunts should handle the job.

Poison works, though it wounds on 6's against GC's. Hormagaunts will die before they know what hit them. 2 squads of 30 ork boyz went up against my Bio-titan. Thanks to it's Lash Whips, everything attacks it a I1. Then it has a special "stomp" attack that affects everything thing in base contact. So out of the 60 models, I attack 30 of them and kill about 20. Then he loses about another 16 due to No Retreat, gets below fearless and breaks without the chance to recover. So you put 30 hormagaunts on it, it'll stomp on them and practically wipe them out after factoring combat resolution.
 

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Both C'tan hitting it at once could have a chance at it. Wound on 4s/5s I believe, and ignore all saves. Yes they have to get there, but they have a better shot than a fair number of things with their 4++ save, and T8 or so. Doom could have a shot. Drop it nearby, gain some wounds from killing Hormies or something, and then drop a S10 blast on it. GC's are specifically immune to Psychic powers only if they don't have a S value. That's about what I've got off the top of my head.
 

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Hive Fleet Pandora
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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
C'tans would work well against it. However, they'll probably die to the scores of poisoned hormagaunts and termagaunts that usually tag along with it in an Apoc game. But I like that idea.

You'd probably need to spam 20+ Dooms in order for their S10 blasts to have any effect, and even that may not be enough if you count it's 3++ save, T9, 10W and regeneration.
 

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Culexus execution force perhaps - flank march into range (formation freebie), charge through the guant screen (psyker assassin rule), take a half dozen pot shots with psyk-out grenades and then life drain the thing - the hierophant is looking at multiple tests of 2d6+7 vs 2d6+10 and taking a wound for each failure with _no invulnerable saves_
 

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Hive Fleet Pandora
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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
Culexus execution force perhaps - flank march into range (formation freebie), charge through the guant screen (psyker assassin rule), take a half dozen pot shots with psyk-out grenades and then life drain the thing - the hierophant is looking at multiple tests of 2d6+7 vs 2d6+10 and taking a wound for each failure with _no invulnerable saves_
Oohhh...what a nasty idea. It has a very slight chance of working...with an emphasis on very slight. That's because the Hierophant is usually at the forefront of nid armies (at least that's how I would play it), moves 12", can fleet 2d6" depending if it fires or not and then assault 6". And trailing behind it is the rest of the nid army. The culexi would have to cut their way through all those gribblies and TMC's before it could close onto the Hierophant. I like the idea though.
 
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