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molaticdeath said:
So fluff-wise.... When do you think a hive tyrant or carni will show up? Zoans? I'm baseing my question on points... how points should an army be before it's 'worthy' of a big nid?
Well, aside from Gargoyles, Gaunts, Genestealers and Lictors...I would imagine they all arrive around the same time. The ones I stated arrive first, then maybe Warriors for synapse then everything else.
 

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molaticdeath said:
So fluff-wise.... When do you think a hive tyrant or carni will show up? Zoans? I'm baseing my question on points... how points should an army be before it's 'worthy' of a big nid?
I've wondered something similar to this before. "Realistically", if I was the Hive Mind, I'd just send 50 Carnifexes in lieu of waves of Gaunts, LOL.

I would imagine everything arrives roughly the same time, Zoans and Tyrants to hold the lines, Carnifexes to go in and start smashing right away. If you look at the Hive Mind as a human general, it makes sense to send in different units at different times. However, neither the Hive Mind nor the "troops" are afraid of anything, so why not send in everything at once?
 

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The Hive Fleet is all about resources. If you read the fluff in the Tyranid codex you will notice that the fleet requires tremendous resources to get from planet to planet. Because they must expend resources in such great amounts the fleet will literally die if they run out before they find their next feast. So wasting the least amount of resources for each engagement can become very important.

The scouting fleet will undoubtedly consist of Lictors and Genestealers. Both of these units can perform perfectly well outside of Synapse range so make perfect scouts. Once the Genestealers have sampled the world and found it to be satisfactory for consumption the Lictors start calling in the fleet. Their Psychic beacon draws the fleet to the world as noted in the codex describing their Reserve re-roll.

The first attack wave will more than likely be filled with Gaunts and Warriors. The codex indicates that Warriors can be HQ units and provide Synapse but are still much less complex than a Tyrant or Broodlord. So the first wave will be Gaunts with Warriors as leaders/synapse. Maybe a few heavy units to assist with softening up stron static defenses. The first wave also includes spore seeding the atmosphere to begin the conversion of the biomatter into a form more easily consumed. These spores infect every living creature and plant and begin destroying it and converting it to raw biomatter.

The main attack wave will see the majority of Tyranid creatures join the fray. Once the fighting begins the Carnifex's can be directed to crush the strongest defendable positions to break the defenses for the Gaunts to rush forward. The Tyrant's would most likely keep back and act as the General of the army to focus the Hive Mind to control the battle.

The consumption phase would see swarms of Rippers cover the entire planet mindlessly eating everything in sight. As the Rippers consume biomatter they are returned to the Hive Fleet and reintegrated with the food supply. Once they're done the only thing left is a hulk of rock.

It's time for the Hive Fleet to follow the nearest Psychic becaon to their next feast.
 
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molaticdeath said:
So fluff-wise.... When do you think a hive tyrant or carni will show up? Zoans? I'm baseing my question on points... how points should an army be before it's 'worthy' of a big nid?

Well, the problem I see with answering your question is that for the most part, unless its in the early stages of an invasion, 'your' tyranid force will be merely a small part of the entire force on the planet. So, by the time that happens, all sorts of critters will be deployed.


So...the questions you should ask yourself fluffwise is....what stage is the invasion in? If in early stages, it might consist of only scouting units and Warriors.


In the middle you could have anything...

At the end, I'd expect to see more ripper swarms than anything else.


Since the middle period is most likely, I think any combination that you come up with is fluffy, since the hivemind could reallocate resources, command units and such to either meet threats or sieze objectives.

Lets say your tyranid force is a Godzilla style...well in that case, the hive mind must really need you to accomplish the goal you are undertaking and has directed its strongest forces to the task.

If your force is gaunt heavy, then it is likely that the hive mind is conserving its energies(materials) for a big push either elsewhere or later in the same area. Or perhaps the threat is so great, that the guants are being sent in first to soak up ammunition.....


The point of all this is that beyond the set game limits, I don't think you need to pick a particular level to determine when certain critters might show up.
 

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LordCreampuff said:
The Hive Fleet is all about resources. If you read the fluff in the Tyranid codex you will notice that the fleet requires tremendous resources to get from planet to planet. Because they must expend resources in such great amounts the fleet will literally die if they run out before they find their next feast. So wasting the least amount of resources for each engagement can become very important.

The scouting fleet will undoubtedly consist of Lictors and Genestealers. Both of these units can perform perfectly well outside of Synapse range so make perfect scouts. Once the Genestealers have sampled the world and found it to be satisfactory for consumption the Lictors start calling in the fleet. Their Psychic beacon draws the fleet to the world as noted in the codex describing their Reserve re-roll.

The first attack wave will more than likely be filled with Gaunts and Warriors. The codex indicates that Warriors can be HQ units and provide Synapse but are still much less complex than a Tyrant or Broodlord. So the first wave will be Gaunts with Warriors as leaders/synapse. Maybe a few heavy units to assist with softening up stron static defenses. The first wave also includes spore seeding the atmosphere to begin the conversion of the biomatter into a form more easily consumed. These spores infect every living creature and plant and begin destroying it and converting it to raw biomatter.

The main attack wave will see the majority of Tyranid creatures join the fray. Once the fighting begins the Carnifex's can be directed to crush the strongest defendable positions to break the defenses for the Gaunts to rush forward. The Tyrant's would most likely keep back and act as the General of the army to focus the Hive Mind to control the battle.

The consumption phase would see swarms of Rippers cover the entire planet mindlessly eating everything in sight. As the Rippers consume biomatter they are returned to the Hive Fleet and reintegrated with the food supply. Once they're done the only thing left is a hulk of rock.

It's time for the Hive Fleet to follow the nearest Psychic becaon to their next feast.
You're totally right, I guess it's been awhile since I've looked at that! I tend to think of them as unstoppable, but I guess that big balancing factor is they're "living for the moment" so to speak and can't just do whatever they want.
 

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FistofManheim said:
You're totally right, I guess it's been awhile since I've looked at that! I tend to think of them as unstoppable, but I guess that big balancing factor is they're "living for the moment" so to speak and can't just do whatever they want.
I like reading the fluff while on the crapper. I found a bunch of White Dwarf issues that cover this exact topic and even include scenarios for each part of the invasion. I think they're White Dwarf 304-307 (June-Sept). All of the issues have Tyranids on the cover and contain a description of one part of the invasion. It also includes a lot of painting guides and tactics for 'nids. Nothing overwhelming but I got a few cool ideas from them. I'd send you mine but they've been "flagged". :eek:
 

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LordCreampuff said:
I like reading the fluff while on the crapper. I found a bunch of White Dwarf issues that cover this exact topic and even include scenarios for each part of the invasion. I think they're White Dwarf 304-307 (June-Sept). All of the issues have Tyranids on the cover and contain a description of one part of the invasion. It also includes a lot of painting guides and tactics for 'nids. Nothing overwhelming but I got a few cool ideas from them. I'd send you mine but they've been "flagged". :eek:
:lol: , "flagged", good one. I have to go back and dig mine out, I do remember those articles. All those pics in WD got me onto them in the first place. I have to admit it, I started Nids because of the new models. But I really do love everything about them now that I have them. Just gotta re-read that fluff!
 

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In the beginning of an invasion, the Tyranids should already have Genestealers, Lictors, and Vanguard organisms such as quick Warriors and Gaunts scouting to find pockets of resistance and resources for the hive. The Tyranids begin with lots of spore mine release and mycetic spores with Tyranids inside, using bombardment and quick shock tactics to overwhelm quickly. The tyranids also essentially begin consuming the planet immediately by sucking up air and sowing the seeds for Tyranid plant life which will digest nutrients. The Tyranids also start with a widespread release of Gargoyles deployed from Harridans and other flying creatures like Winged Warriors and sometimes Winged Tyrants.

When the main pockets of resistance are found, they are herded together and Hive Tyrants, Zoantropes, Carnifexes, and other large assualt beasts are sent to crush any resistance. In their wake spring up all kinds of Tyranid plants, and lesser things follow like Rippers.
 

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Grey wrote what I would have replied and I agree with his post except for a minor detail.

I thought the Genestealers were responsible for the 'psychic beacon' part as they travel host spaceships to scout out new planets.
The Lictors then befall the valuable planets and there start to search for key locations that need to be attacked, analyze the prey with their feeder tendrils and so on.
After that the main body of the fleet will arrive and bob's yer uncle.
 

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You're right, although all tyranids in general provide the psychic beacon. The greater the and more fruitful the colony becomes, the stronger the beacon will become. It just so happens that Genestealers and Lictors are the best at infiltrating like this because of their quickness, resilience, and stealth abilities. In the case of Genestealers, they often infiltrate society itself, as everyone may know from genestealer cults. They aren't called Genestealers because they take your pants. :ph34r:
 

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There are no official rules for them right now, but the GW website has ideas for making a genestealer cult using the IG doctrines, and there are plenty of unofficial rules floating around on the net, usually they are based partly on their rules in Necromunda.
 
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