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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Basically with the amount of chatter flying arount about 6th Edition and what codexes are going to be updated,etc,etc
It has got me thinking

Are vanilla marines slowly being left behind?
I am aware that this is the natural proggession of things (ie as new codexes are released to fit armies into new rules sytems the older codexes get left behind)
All I am wanting to do is get a discussion going about what you would like to see happen to vanilla marines?
The changes that I have noticed in other codexes are the number of flyers (which marines have been getting some)
and vechicle squadrons.

personally I think we could do with more squadrons as we only have land speeder squadrons atm
maybe put standard dreadnoughts back into Heavy support in a squardon of 1-3 for 90pts each before upgrades

But what do you think?
 

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I would say its too early to start wishlisting on what sixth will bring for vanilla marines.After all we dont know the rule set yet.Regardless i believe that they wont be left behind.I believe immediately following the release of 6th the vanilla codex will make its appearance.One thing is for certain,there will be fliers in there.
 

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I would say its too early to start wishlisting on what sixth will bring for vanilla marines.After all we dont know the rule set yet.Regardless i believe that they wont be left behind.I believe immediately following the release of 6th the vanilla codex will make its appearance.One thing is for certain,there will be fliers in there.
so EVERYone will have airsupremecy??? Mephiston and Co won't like that.... :D
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Sorry i know it is still early days for wishlisting etc, but its obvious to see a general direction GW are going in
as in flyers and squardrons and I was just wondering if other people agree with this and how they think vanilla marines
will be brought into line with this
 

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Perhaps it was a poor choice of words to describe it as wish listing.

I would believe that taking tank squadrons would be more viable as apposed to dreads though.

so EVERYone will have airsupremecy??? Mephiston and Co won't like that.... :D
Doubtful,theres bound to be some chapter with useless or points inefficient flyers.Or bad synergy in the lists.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Yes i find it much more likely to have a vidicator or predator squadron but i think a drednought squadron would be much more interesting,
but are there any other units in the codex you feel should/ would be moved or changed?
 

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Assault squads need a reason to exist.How they should change though i dont know.Perhaps give them access to flamers and meltas or reduce their points?Dunno...

I always believed that terminators should turn into 2 wounds and it was good to see it implemented in the GK dex.Heres to this carrying on to the rest.
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
defiantly need to up the wounds on terminators plus for me i never liked having assault terminators as a seperate unit,
No real in game reason just to me it made no sense you should have a single unit that you can equip to be all assualt, all gun or a mix.
 

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isn't a 2+5++ save enough already??? thaey can't give any better Invun saves, otherwise SS would be 2++ for the Halo to be effective at 3++
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Im sorry but everyone out there knows how to kill terminators and they instantly become fire magnets and regardless of the 2+ armour save there are too many weapons out there that can ignore it and too many armies that can throw so many shots at a unit that it doesnt matter what armour save you have you are bound to fail too many,

Plus its only assault termies with storm shield that have an invulnerable save
Giving them 2 wounds does not over power them just look at GK termies, they have 2 wound and still have 2+ save and are pyskers
 

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I agree Termies need a second wound and honestly they should get a +1 to strength too. I mean it is super powered armor, it should confer a little extra strength. Tack on an additional 5 points per model or something for the strength and it would still be balanced. The real problem with Vanilla marines is that they do not have a lot of ways to deal with the bigger elites that most armies have.
 

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Well thats rectified by the TH/SS combo and libby force weapons to an extent.
 

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Im sorry but everyone out there knows how to kill terminators and they instantly become fire magnets and regardless of the 2+ armour save there are too many weapons out there that can ignore it and too many armies that can throw so many shots at a unit that it doesnt matter what armour save you have you are bound to fail too many,

Plus its only assault termies with storm shield that have an invulnerable save
Giving them 2 wounds does not over power them just look at GK termies, they have 2 wound and still have 2+ save and are pyskers
Terminators are fire magnets because they are good. Making them better wouldn't change that. People wouldn't target them if they weren't afraid of them. Don't under estimate the 5++. I need them to be the cost effective psychology hammer they are. So the rest of my troops can move less molested for a turn or two.

That being said, if they were upgraded to two wounds I certainly wouldn't complain haha!

As for "what is missing?"

I would love to see the codex go back to how it was in 4th, with various bonuses and drawbacks you could give them, for much more unique armies.
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
Sorry i wasn't complaining about 5++ in fact IMO the only terminators you should take are TH/SS because you need it,
I know they are fire magnets because they are good but I just feel giving them 2 wounds is fine because nothing is more annoying
than a full unit of 5 termies getting hit by a large blast and you losing 3 because you failed your 5++ saves

think about it a 5 man squad is 200pts they can easily make back their points but all your opponent has to do is cause 3 unsaved wounds on the unit to render them more or less useless
true 2 terminators are still good but they will never make back 200pts them selves,
 

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2 wounds is wrong, because terminators are still space marines inside, they're not something different. Maybe a +1T but it's really borderline.
Their better armor save is everything they've different from a regular marine. I agree on a +1S due to armor tho!

By the way, if you managed to place your terminators in the open ready to receive a s6+ ap2- large blast, well, you're the only one to blame. Use cover or give them a transport :)
 

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2 wounds is wrong, because terminators are still space marines inside, they're not something different. Maybe a +1T but it's really borderline.
Their better armor save is everything they've different from a regular marine. I agree on a +1S due to armor tho!

That can easily been said for paladins yet they have them. ;)

My reasoning is that terminators are the best warriors of the imperium and usually you have to have served in the terminator companies to become a captain,so how can a captain be 2-3 wounds?Its not like his body recognizes the captaincy and goes like: Ok i can handle this now. Thus meaning you have seen and survived the worst the galaxy threw at you for at least a century. A +1 wound is a minor thing when viewed from that spectrum.Add the instakill weapons in there...

Plus IMHO 250 for an Elite squad that can be vaporized by a single blast weapon...no. Most elite units in other dexes are 2 wounds why not terminators?

By the way, if you managed to place your terminators in the open ready to receive a s6+ ap2- large blast, well, you're the only one to blame. Use cover or give them a transport :)
You never dropped, misshaped or forced to consolidate in the open then? ;)
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
bit hard to move termies the turn they deepstrike :p
plus some very unlucky scatter makes for some very dead termies :(
 

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well, ok, i concede that's not that hard to put terminators in the open. But maybe then it's not so wise to deepstrike in front of your opponent then :D

Anyway, i still think that 2W GK are definitely wrong too.
And a Captain is a Captain, it's fair to buff it somehow (this time the +1T is better maybe)
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
No one is arguing with your logic, what you are saying makes sense.

BUT

2W GK do exsist and the fact is they may be ordingary marines below the armour but if a captain deserves a buff of some kind then terminators deserve a buff over normal marines
 
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