[aalmazan_blg]

I could really use your guys' help out on this one, what would you say ideally? And in a 2000 pt army build in case that is a determing factor

I just wanna know how much it takes for a certain unit to be at optimum performance thank you!

if you could please list the units and the number! thanks again

 

[timk1111]

Ive only has the chance to play smallish games so far, but here are my thoughts:

-Characters - MAX
Whatever character setup you have, Tomb kings, LHP's, Princes, Icon bearers or what ever, I think characters should always be maxed. Incantaions are needed badly, and give the army quite an edge over most others.

-HTH Skeletons - Anything more than 20
I run 23 with a Prince, so 24 give me good static res, and lots of numbers. You MUST outnumber to take ful advantage of fear, esp with you're core Skeleton blocks.

-Bow Skeletons 10-20
Units of 10 can priovide fire suport, but a unit closer to 20 can also tarpit units for a flank charge, as well as hide a LP or two...

-Light Horsemen - 5
5 is good unit to block LOS, block charges, and add some basic support. If they are gonna house a LP, then the more the merrier I think. 6-8 is good for this.

-Heavy Horsemen 5 or 12
5 is for a basic flanking unit. Their improved save and spears, when compared to light cav, means they can take on flanks better without them all dying to the return attacks. If attacking front on, 12 I feel is the minimum, to take full advantage of the static combat res these guys can offer. 12 including an Icon bearer and warbanner on the unit, will give 5 static res if targeting a unit you outnumber (and with US of 24, that should be too hard...). The more ranks you can pile on, tho, the better...

-Swarms - 2
I think 1 is useless. With 2, you get 10 poisoned attcks, and become decent support for the Scorpions.

-Chariots - 3-4
3 gives another good flanking unit, and can take some things head on, but I'd always go for 4, with more impact hits and more wounds.

-Tomb guard - 18+
I only say 18 assuming a king or prince was joining this unit, and they always should. Being on the more expensice side of units, 3 ranks or 6 combined with character should provide enough kills to get through combat and win. However, the more the better with this unit, and I think 4 ranks of 5 or 6 is perfect.

-Ushabti - 4
The only chance these guys have of taking anything head on is 4 wide, and the mosre attacks the better, as kills is how these guys win combat.

-Carrion - 3-5
If you have spare points, 5 is ideal for outnumbering warmachine crew, and increasing survivability. If points are tight, then 3 or 4 can do the job too, just with elevated risk, at only s3.

-Scorpion - 1
Always take at least one, but 2 is desirable. As they always come up at the same time, they can double team certain units and make a right mess. Great warmachine hunters, too. However, in a LHP list, special slots are tight, so 1 scorp i feel is fine.

-Screaming Skull - 1
Id always use at least 1, but depending on your style of army, 0,1 or 2 is fine.

-Bone giant - ?
Ive never rated this guy - waaaay too expensive. At ws3, he can easily fluff his attcks, then after the charge, he's crap. Sure, he can flank, but so can nearly any other unit in the army...and for fewer points.

Hope this helps. These are just my opinions, and Im sure the rest of the TK crew will be along to correct me on something

Regards, Tim

 

[Phoenix]

Similiar to above really, so im not going to waste time making the same long winded descriptions again, just summarise my thoughts:

Characters: Max out (on available slots, not necesarily on magic items)

Skellie Warriors: from 19 (+ Fighting Character) to 25 (no character)

Bow skellies: 10-12

Light Cav: 5-6

Heavy Cav: 10-12

Swarms: 1-2

Chariots: 3-4

Tomb Guard: 19+ (with Fighting Character) to 25 (no character)

Ushabti: 4

Carrion: 3-5

Scorpion: 1-2

SSC: 1-2

Casket: 0-1 (depnding on SSC preferance)

Bone Giant: 0

 

[Lannymay]

I'll quickly give my thoughts,

Characters, Max. 1 prince, 1 LHP and 2 LP

At least 24 Skellies (than add 1 character IMHO)

At least 20 archers. With Righteous Smiting and always hitting on 5+ you can widdle down the opponents before they get to you.

Light cav - 1 or 2 groups of 5.

No heavy cav! TK heavy cavilry isn't worth the point cost.

NO bone giant! With only a weapon skill 3 it can really really hurt you for 220 points it's not worth it!

SSC!! 1 or 2!!! again put a priest beside them and fire away!!!


CARRION are the only unit in the army that has great movement!! they are great for getting enemy artillery and single characters from across the battlefield! 40" charge is ridicoulous!!! Take 3 of them to the battle, you can use the 72 points as fodder if you need to quickly block a charge or bring out some fanatics!



Tomb Scorpions are great as well, take 1 or 2!

Chariots! I take 3 chariots and than add 1 more chariot with my prince in it. I also add the banner of the undying legion to the unit as well. I than buff my prince with Chariot of fire (chariot does D6+1 impact hits instead of 3) and the golden eye of Rah-nutt (chariot gets a 5+ward save and strength 7 attacks that would normally destroy a chariot do normal damage) this gives the unit some great punching power!! With the Prince Casting Urgency it really gets the chariots around the board in a hurry!

Tomb Guard. I take 20 to the table. sometimes I take the Icon of Rakaph which gives the unit a free reform at the beggining of each turn before the charges are declared!! The first time that you turn your unit of 20 tomb guards in the direction of the your enemy before the charges are declared your opponent will curse!!!


Hope this helps!!

Lannymay

 

[DA-Atma]

40" charge is ridicoulous!!!

You're right, a 40" charge is rediculous. In fact, it's so rediculous that there is an entire section of the rulebook devoted to explaining how it doesn't work like that, and how flyers can only charge their normal 20" movement. It's about 3 paragraphs after the part that details flyer movement, where it also states that they do not double thier movement like ground troops during charges.

Seriously, Flying Charges, page 68. I don't mean to be a dick, but seriously, I just don't understand how anyone can mess this one up. I mean, it's not like it's buried in the rules in some obscure, 1 line thing... there's a section devoted entirely to the topic, headed in bold text, in the section for the rules for that unit type.

 

[Phoenix]

You're right, a 40" charge is rediculous. In fact, it's so rediculous that there is an entire section of the rulebook devoted to explaining how it doesn't work like that, and how flyers can only charge their normal 20" movement. It's about 3 paragraphs after the part that details flyer movement, where it also states that they do not double thier movement like ground troops during charges.

Seriously, Flying Charges, page 68. I don't mean to be a dick, but seriously, I just don't understand how anyone can mess this one up. I mean, it's not like it's buried in the rules in some obscure, 1 line thing... there's a section devoted entirely to the topic, headed in bold text, in the section for the rules for that unit type.

Heh, dude this one isnt to do with the Core rules. They can gte a 40" charge with the aid of TK magic.

 

[swntzu]

Indeed it is "rediculous". XD

I'm not an expert on tomb kings but I believe this is to do with a TK incantation that lets you move (and indeed charge) during the magic phase. This means tht you move twice in a turn and therefore that flyers can effectively charge 40".

Deci wouldn't make a mistake like doubling the flying move in charges.

Or would he?

 

[DA-Atma]

Even if he is referring to the incantation, it's still a misnomer. And, being purely realistic, it's still unrealistic. You're going to have to either stick a liche priest on a horse or a tomb king on a chariot and put them right behind the unit of carrion. After their normal move, the carrion will be 20" away. That would mean that you'd have to follow with another character at least 8" to be in range. The only magic users capable of doing this in the TK are the ones mentioned above, and neither is really feasible. You're either exposing a priest in a huge way, or using a king's incantation, which is going to be dispelled with no difficulty.

Carrion are awesome, and it's funny the one time per opponent you actually get to pull this stunt off, but yeah. Once. Ever. You can see this one coming a mile away

 

[Phoenix]

All you need is 1 item. Cloak of the Dunes. On your Hiero. If the 1st turn charge is going to come, it will likely be from him. Bear in mind also that TK spells dont need Line of Sight, except the magic missile.

Carrion start from your deployment, fly on the offensive side of a forest. Priest on the defensive side, and then get casting.

 

[Esco Thomson]

Even if he is referring to the incantation, it's still a misnomer. And, being purely realistic, it's still unrealistic. You're going to have to either stick a liche priest on a horse or a tomb king on a chariot and put them right behind the unit of carrion. After their normal move, the carrion will be 20" away. That would mean that you'd have to follow with another character at least 8" to be in range. The only magic users capable of doing this in the TK are the ones mentioned above, and neither is really feasible. You're either exposing a priest in a huge way, or using a king's incantation, which is going to be dispelled with no difficulty.

Carrion are awesome, and it's funny the one time per opponent you actually get to pull this stunt off, but yeah. Once. Ever. You can see this one coming a mile away

No offense, but you are quite off.

First turn carrion charges are all about deployment, and tactical first turn movement. Chances are neither you, nor your opponent is going to deploy all units at the edge of the table. So on a standard table you could need as little as 24'' to get a first turn charge off. Even if you deploy forward, and your opponent went all back, that would still be 36'' leaving, you an extra 4'' a gap easily closed by mounting a priest, or using the cloak, two things which should not be uncommon in this army.

It's also worth noting that keeping a TK close to try to MWBD the carrion is also great as it forces your opponent to throw dice to dispel it, or take the charge. Leave less to dispel the remaining LP's incantations with, and also opens up a good scenario in which to use the jar, if you are packing it.

I just don't view this tactic as anything close to a one shot gimmick, especially considering I generally have about a 70-75% success rate with pulling it off each game.

 

[Brandpwn]

Typically on every battlefield theres a forest that you can flank around. Your priest can be on the protected side and cast, said earlier. And if that isnt enough, you probably will have a unit of chariots going around the flank that can offer some shielding. Its very possible too, I just recently pulled it off with my first time ever using carrion.

 

[M'muth]

I've used the first turn charge tactic a few times but I wouldn't rely on it, as nearly every opponent I play packs two scrolls and this can leave your carrion wide open to archery, cannons and enemy magic missiles.

I'd say 5 is the ideal for carrion, it gives you some added boost v war machines, means you can comfortably take on skirmish units and Light cavalry, and when an enemy flees from your catapults, or as a charge reaction, they move through your conviniently place US5 Carrion unit.
I'd say two is ideal for swarms. One base can be useful for warmachine hunting and general nuisance value if you are short on points however.

 

[Esco Thomson]

Also in a lighter response, the perfect number for everything in the army is simply, "42".

 

[Mumm-Ra]

Also in a lighter response, the perfect number for everything in the army is simply, "42".

bravo, sir.

As for the carrion charge, I am still trying out new things and I will definitely try that out, it sounds solid, despite what the naysayers say. All the numbers sound good. I cannot really add things, people nailed it. And of course, everyone has mixed feelings on heavy cav. They're usable, but just not as heavy cav. Keep that in mind if you decide to field them.

 

[Nagash]

bravo, sir.

Try not to become a threadomancer, for then I'm afraid I'll have to send you to the VC forum by banishing you from Nehekhara hehe

The thread isn't active any longer, and it was 2 years since the last post... Try to leave it to its fate then, will you?


//Nagash

 

[Marnepup]

With a name like Nagash, I don't think you're allowed to protest threadomancy. I have but one comment on the ideal numbers. 20 tomb guard plus a fighty character, arranged in 7x3. Gives you a 7-5 advantage when lined up on the usual 5-wide enemy infantry, which is often more valuable than the extra rank that you could get going 5x4+1. A prince and six killing blow-capable uber-skellies is a fearsome thing. Saw off TWO units of seven questing knights in my last game...