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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Where do you say wood elves rank in the overall army lists? Heck, where does every army rank.


1) Demons
2) Vampire Counts
3) Dark Elves

4) High Elves
5) Lizard men
6) Skaven
7) Warriors of Chaos
8.) Wood Elves
9) Dwarves
10.) Bretonnians
11) Empire
12) Tomb Kings

13) Beasts of Chaos
14) Orcs and Goblins
15) Ogre Kingdoms


I put spaces in because i feel there are very large discrepancies between the top three and the bottom three. I feel Woodies fit pretty snuggly in the middle of the pack. Soo what do you think?
 

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I agree with your placement of wood elves, but from my experiences I'd say:

1-Daemons
2-Vamps
3-Dark Elves

4-WoC
5-High Elves
6-Lizardmen
7-Skaven
8-Wood Elves
9-Dwarves
10-Empire
11-Brets
12-O&G
13-Ogres

14-Tomb Kings
15-BoC

I think that most people underestimate an ogre army if used well with a good general. I also think that it is disputable between vamps and dark elves, as both a very good.

However, you're a lot more exerienced than me, as you've helped me out on a number of army list, so you're prbably right!

thegreat1
 

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Advocatus Diaboli
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Let's get this straight:

1-Daemons
2-Dark Elves
3-Vamps


4-Lizardmen
5-High Elves
6-Skaven
7-Wood Elves
8-WoC
9-Dwarves
10-Empire (Possibly better than dwarfs. They have some nasty builds available)
11-Brets
12-Tomb Kings
13-O&G

14-BoC
15-Ogres

Admittedly it's all very subjective. But WE are better than WoC, as are Lizzies. WoC just doesn't have the flexibility (Gateway Spam doesn't count) to take on highly mobile armies like WE or Lizards.

Wood Elves lack a certain degree of hitting power, but with Treemen and Treemen Ancients (Hitting on 6s is still a cheap trick) there are opportunities to make up for it. Primarily you're better placed to pick your fights, which just leaves the higher end armies with similar and/or better tricks (DE, DoC and Lizzies) to show you up.
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
The top three are so powerful i dont really think you can make such a descripancy between VC and DE. Demons are clearly extremely powerful.

Ive only played WoC once, and it was a hard fought battle.
Dwarves and Empire are pretty close. However in my expereince i feel that Dwarves definately have an advantage.

Id really like tosee other army players post here, and see what the outside look on Woodies is. I have heard they are both OP and UP
 

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Advocatus Diaboli
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I don't play Wood Elves...never will ;).

While WE have an advantage over WoC, overcoming their armour and toughness will always be the challenge. But equally, WoC will always have difficulty actually fighting wood elf units on their own terms (even more so if the Woodies keep to terrain).
 

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I would say that wood elves are in the middle of the pack. I think skaven will start to climb with there new book. Maybe up to 4th or 5th. I think vamps are starting to fall as people learn to play against them. I pretty much agree with Rork's list, though I would move skaven ahead of high elves.

SirKently
 

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As far as overall in fantasy I would say we are in the middle.

However I believe this is mostly due to the fact that the army in general plays very differently from all the others, and that since most of the wood elf players I have seen are veteran gamers they tend to be able to make the most of this. I have heard a lot of my opponents say that their biggest problem with facing me is that my army fights so differently from everything else that what is good verse others is almost always been pointless against me.

As for the army book itself goes I would say from we are in the bottom 3rd as lots of units and magic gear has no value and many units need some rule updates.

For the 3 I have the most trouble with I would say Daemons, High Elves, and EOTG spam Lizards. Daemons because lets face it they are a really strong army and I run almost all forest spirits. High Elves because them always striking first really hurts when you have soft units that count on hitting first from charging, although my new list should not be affected nearly as much. Lizards, cause the engine just murders forest spirit armies.
 

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Advocatus Diaboli
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I would say that wood elves are in the middle of the pack. I think skaven will start to climb with there new book. Maybe up to 4th or 5th. I think vamps are starting to fall as people learn to play against them. I pretty much agree with Rork's list, though I would move skaven ahead of high elves.
I would still put Lizards ahead of Skaven. Skaven are still very unreliable - Most of their weapons are very random and can't be relied on. Lizards have reliability in a much wider spectrum (magic, psychology, poison++) than Skaven, so while the rats will be able to beat them, they're unlikely to have the consistency.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
I agree with Rork.

Even 'soft' lizard man lists (read soft as: 1 steg) can still be deadly powerful. Their casters are cheap with the exception of Slann(more like SLAM) mages, and they can surely put a a wicked amount of poison darts into the air.

I havent had a chance to play against the new rats, but I'm sure i will eventually. From what i hear thou besides from new trinkets and toys they are basically the same.
 

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Honestly, I'm far more terrified of the dual hydra list.

Flame templates of that strength make me lose. :(

And the stupid saves make it so it's really hard to kill in combat. I can take one, but not two...
EDIT:
So yeah, I know the solution is to avoid them. but it has an effective 20" range with the tip of its template. (march 12", breath 8")
 

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/botnobot/
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You posers have it all wrong.


1) Wood Elves
2) Wood Elves
3) Wood Elves

4) Wood Elves
5) Wood Elves
6) Wood Elves
7) Wood Elves
8.) Wood Elves
9) Wood Elves
10.) Wood Elves
11) Wood Elves
12) Wood Elves

13) Wood Elves
14) Wood Elves
15) Wood Elves

Wood Elves are the alpha and omega of Warhammer, hands down.



Librarium | Online | Forums
 

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You posers have it all wrong.


1) Wood Elves
2) Vampire Counts
3) Dark Elves

4) High Elves
5) Lizard men
6) Skaven
7) Warriors of Chaos
8.) Ogroids
9) Dwarves
10.) Bretonnians
11) Empire
12) Tomb Kings

13) Beasts of Chaos
14) Orcs and Goblins
15) Wood Elves

Wood Elves are the alpha and omega of Warhammer, hands down.
Technically you're still wrong. The quote should sort things out better.

Anyway, I always have my doubts about ranking armies as, similar to Rork's statement, it all tends to be very subjective. While you probably will find a loose consensus more or less (DoC will rarely, if ever, be in the bottom three by way of example), the finer points will rarely be so defined. My own opinion is that Ogre Kingdoms are miles superior to how they've been portrayed so far (and have a decent number of massacre wins to my name to back up those claims). However, where WEs sit in the grand scheme of things tends to vary based on the competence of relative generals - depending on whether the one making the rankings plays them or not, for one - among other things.
 

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I guess it depends on your "rank criteria." If your ranking armies just by overall wins they have, then I'd say most of these lists are accurate, but some armies are a lot more unforgiving (WE..for me anyways) than others, and as such I think there isn't going to be as many wins for those armies, as they take awhile to get used to aka you have to loose a lot before you get the hang of it...and I could imagine some players might not even have the patience and just move on to another army.

For example; last night I was playing against my brother, and everything was going really well for me in the first 2-3 turns, and then I made 1, or 2 stupid moves, and he ended up with a massacre.
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
Really no ranking system.
Its a purely subjective topic.

I personally after playing certain armies and looking through some books feel some are much stronger than others and i wanted to see what everyone else thought
 

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I have to say I think davids lists is pretty accurate...

WE are really strong when played right, because of the different kind of army the WE is, we can make the enemy play on our terms. That alone is a very powefull tool!

At the other hand, WE is very unforgiving, making a mistake is almost the same as losing the battle entirely. Sure you can fix it, but ending up with a big victory is no longer part of the options...

I think deamons and HE, DE and lizardmen are stronger in their armybooks (unit stats, special rules etc) so I would say WE are the 4th and 11th army ;)

PS: this is all from personall experience, so you probably dont agree. I play HE alot, and I hate how they strike first with great weapons! (stupid white lions!! :mad:)
 

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Its also dependant on the Meta-game (man I hate that saying) of your area.

An obvious difference is between my area (australia) and the UK. Over in the UK you guys see much harder lists on average, and allow things like SC's in tournies.

So while daemons may be considered the strongest in the UK, VC are considered stronger down here due to our comp enviroment and the stigmas about taking certain choices in a daemons list (namely GD's).
 

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Advocatus Diaboli
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So while daemons may be considered the strongest in the UK, VC are considered stronger down here due to our comp enviroment and the stigmas about taking certain choices in a daemons list (namely GD's).
I would say that doesn't make VC more powerful. That just means the rules work harder against Daemons than they do against VC.

Comp rules add an additional element of bias into the mix.
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
I don't know how i feel about comp scores,

Part of me is like: Ya! Try to balance this! Screw those daemons and Vamps!

the other part of me is: Hey hey hey!! Why am i getting deducted for try to make a sweet list to win.


And like you said Rork it adds whole new bias to the game. If i dominate my gaming shop on a consistent basis than Wood Elves would probably take a comp hit. Its very regional :/
 

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I have only played against Deamons once and that was with a High elf army so I can't really comment on them but so far the main army that I have feared the most has been High Elves. They are fairly fast, they have a number of units and items that can allow them to come into the woods after us, and they hit comparatively hard especially when combined with Always Strikes First.

Dark Elves are also quite nasty.

I haven't had any problems with Vampire Counts or Warriors of Chaos though Lizard men are occasionally annoying.

Overall I think wood elves are a true finesse army and if played correctly more than any army can allow you to win without losing any units.
 
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