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Which C'tan is best?

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LO's Shadow Captain
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D1storter said:
The two special chractors in the codex are rock hard, but which is best? The nightbringer damages directly whereas the deciever attacks through subtlety. Opinions please
I use the Deceiver.

The Nightbringer is useless when not in Close Combat... and it's not too hard to avoid it, since it moves so slow. In CC, sure, it's a beast... but, technically, so is the Deceiver, when in CC. Not quite as beastly as the Nightbringer, but still a beast compared to most other models.

However, the Deceiver's forte isn't in CC - it's in everything else. The Leadership checks.. all that tasty good stuff. The Deceiver has an easier time fitting into an army and being effective, IMO, because it can do different things throughout the game, whereas the Nightbringer can potentially just be a waste of points if it doesn't get into CC.

Of course, I play using a "Fear" style army using Pariahs and Flayed Ones, so the Deceiver is great.



 

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Nightbringer.

his range weapon is as far reaching as the deceivers, but can effect vehicles (namely making them go bye-bye)and obliterate high cost models in one blast. This also doesn't have as much risk in it against any sort of army that has even decent leadership.

He has gaze of death for those pesky kroot, or other T3 creatures that have S4 or more, trying to hold you up. Gaze of death is also useful if you have a bunch of guys attacking you and you feel like taking a chance. Not as useful, but still devastating if used right.

Etheric Tempest can not only keep T3 creatures away from you, it can save your models that are following your NB. I like to use a NB against tyranids to keep all of those pesky gaunts and rippers away from my forces. I also believe that if the enemy forces have no where to be blown to, they are destroyed, but I have yet to manage to get a hold of GW. This ability is also useful against orks, dark eldar, and certain eldar armies. While the deceiver can run away from any fight, the Nightbringer can support your forces in a way that the deceiver can't.

His increased stats are generally more useful that a higher initiative. Just like a higher initiative is not as useful as a higher WS (at least when it counts), more attacks, and a higher strength.
 

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Slave to the flesh
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But the increase is not worth 60 points for a model that doesn't aid against phase out, granted he is the biggest CC monster in the game, but the deciever does it largly the same but with far more abilities that are useful.

The nightbringer is indeed a one man army, but the deciever aids the rest of the necrons into using LD based attacks to your advantage, he is far more versatile than the NB.

The deciever screws with opponents so much that any battle plans they had go out the window, while the NB is more of an annoyance to be avoided.
 

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Don't forget that the deceiver has as many, if not more, restrictions on his abilities. Most of the time his abilities has specific cases where they can't be used. Take dread for example. The thing can't be used most of the game and doesn't effect many units.

Deceive is probably the best of the deceiver's abilities. With the least amount of restrictions, it still needs your opponent to fail his leadership and they have to be within 24". Grand illusion is good, but chances are that you can only move your best units, and not past 2-3 different moves. Misdirect is good, but it does not help your troops. Helping your troops is what the deceiver is supposed to do. I've found more use out of NB intimidation combined with keeping cc weaklings away from my army to tie it up.

The two characters are similar in rules. Lightning arc is like deceive (on it kills 1 model, deceive has to get past leadership and can make guys run). Gaze of death and dread are completely different, except in their rarity of actually use. Etheric tempest and misdirect are very similar. Misdirect is a foolproof plan to keep your deceiver out of combat. Etheric tempest is the poor mans misdirect, but that poor mans misdirect can spread to your surrounding environment and can really mess up you enemies plans. The deceiver has grand illusion and weaker stats and less cost, nightbringer had added stats (namely 1 more attack) and more cost.

The nice thing is that both get that slew of rules from the page before the NB's stats, like manifestation and above all others.
Both are great, but I find that the NB has 2 abilities that are useful, while deceiver has 1 that works practically all the time, 1 that rarely works due to restrictions, 1 that only applies to him, and 1 that has a 100% chance of doing something but a low chance of doing anything after 2 activations. So deceiver really only uses grand illusion and deceive the entire game while the NB uses lightning arc and (if against weaker cc armies) etheric tempest combined with his insane abilities.
 

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Deciever

I play with the deciever when i can using him in a fear army. I don't get to use him a lot though because i play Grey Knights, Tyranids, and Black Templar mostly. The deciever is much more tactical and though the NB is great for counter attacking (and i do use him sometimes against nids) the deciever can still hold his own in combat.
 

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Nightbringer all the way

I have said it before and I will say it again: NOTHING beats the Nightbringer for psychological impact.

Just seeing him out there send my opponents in a dither. I know he can be beat, but so what? They are so worried about him getting too close to anyone that they forget that there is a rest of the army to deal with! And just let him get into HtH...

It makes me weepy just thinking about it :cry:
 

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Too Sexy For My Whirlwind
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The NB biggest bonus on his staline(over the Deciever) is his str. 10...which allows him to insta-kill all those T5 models(Daemon princes come to mind).

I still prefer the deceiver for points conservation...but on the topic of comparisons.
 

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LO's Shadow Captain
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Sabe said:
The NB biggest bonus on his staline(over the Deciever) is his str. 10...which allows him to insta-kill all those T5 models(Daemon princes come to mind).

I still prefer the deceiver for points conservation...but on the topic of comparisons.
Any Chaos player dumb enough to let his DP in CC with a C'tan.. of any sort... should just not bother with tactics. :wacko: The C'tan are slow enough to avoid, especially since most DP's are given either Wings, a Bike, another Steed, or Speed.

So, while it is a plus for the Nightbringer, it's not one that can be used well enough. It would be used better vs. things such as Death Guard infantry, etc.



 

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Too Sexy For My Whirlwind
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Any Chaos player dumb enough to let his DP in CC with a C'tan.. of any sort... should just not bother with tactics. The C'tan are slow enough to avoid, especially since most DP's are given either Wings, a Bike, another Steed, or Speed.
\


I wouldn't use a C'Tan if I wasn't thouroughly capable of getting it into combat with a worthy target. Doesn't really matter what your movement modes are if your stuck in combat with something.

DP in combats movement: 0"
C'Tan's movement: 6"(+6" on charge)

Admittedly yes, someone else could try to get my NB into assault with something as well to slow it down, however basically it comes down to a battle of wits. My win record wasn't gained off newbs and 14 years olds, most of the players at my store are pretty accomplished with their respective armies. This should say that more often than not I can field a slow c'tan quite effectively. Not to say I always use one.
 

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Son of LO
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Well, the last 10 times I replied to this topic I would have answered the Deceiver. However, I found a master Necron player a few weeks ago and he does amazing things with the Nightbringer. I've never had much fear against it before, since I have 11 Lascannons in my White Scars army, but the way that he used him to deny me targets and to keep his better units completely safe was just masterful.

I also saw him use the Nightbringer against an Ork KOS army and I never realized just how useful Etheric Tempest was. The Orks would jump into CC with a unit of Necron Warriors and he would just have ole Nighty blow them out of combat with a strong wind and then shoot them to death. It was beautiful.

The Deceiver has a lot of tactical ability, but it's important to not underestimate the sheer killing power that ole nighty has.
 

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-i say nighbringer because i would only ever take a c'tan if i was facing an army that had to charge me like nids or orcs, and then i only value them for their sheer CC power.
 

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I've always been too strapped for points to take a 'bringer- I play with a large warrior core.

The deceiver does just fine, though.
 

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The Nightbringer is too slow. That's what it comes down to. Unless he's in combat with you, the worst he'll be doing is firing one shot at you, and even then, the range isn't all that special. If you LET him get in combat with you, you probably deserve to be squashed.

The Deciever on the other hand can help the army as a whole. He can allow you to re-deploy units for one, not to mention have other units spinning in circles with his leadership based abilities. Also... The Nightbringer is better in combat than the Deciever, yes, but... Not THAT much better. Almost anything that gets hit by the Deciever is gonna die just as easily as they would to the Nightbringer.
 
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