Which Lord?

705 Views 13 Replies 7 Participants Last post by The Mad Hatter, Feb 2, 2006

numberofthebeastxxx

Discussion Starter · Feb 2, 2006

Got an RTT coming up the 25th. I've used my Annihilation Angels (chaos using NL rules) in one form or another for the last few RTT's I've played (with great success). So I'm refining the list a bit. I'm stuck between 2 lords and I was wondering if I could get some input as to which one to use.

(remember NL rules so they both automatially have night vision)

1st Lord (192)
ccw, dreadaxe, bionics, frags, spikey bits, aura, speed, stature, strength, armour, furious charge.

On the charge this guy gets 5 I6, S7 attacks with one re-roll and no saves. He'll get into combat quick, take quite a bit of damage in combat, but he can be targeted by shooting.

2nd Lord (196)
MoCU, lightning claws, frags, spikey bits, aura, mutation, strength, armour, furious charge, infiltrate.

This guy gets 6 I6, S6 attacks, with one hit re-roll, and any wound re-rolls. While not as durable, he has the potential to get into combat on the 1st turn, can re-roll more attacks, and can't be targeted by shooting since he's not monstrous. But he can potentially be killed by models that can take his hits with invulnerable saves.

I know there a bit more expensive than your standard lord. I usually don't give the lord dem. armour and such, but in past RTT's he has taken some punishment to shooting after wiping a squad out or getting hit by squads with tons of attacks. A 3+ save wasen't really cutting it.

Comments?

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Caluin

· #2 · Feb 2, 2006

numberofthebeastxxx said:
But he can potentially be killed by models that can take his hits with invulnerable saves.

What models do you fear having an Invulnerable save? The only thing I can really think of is the occasional IC, which you shouldn't be targeting anyways, and Terminators, which if you're attacking them with your Lord, you deserve to lose him to a hail of Powerfists.

Though, it looks like #2 is illegal, so #1 wins by default. Remember that when you have a Mark of the Gods then you may only have one Veteran Skill, unless your legion allows more.

Why the Lightning Claws anyways? You wound on a 2+ against most basic troops on the Charge anyways, so what does that expensive pair of Claws net you? Maybe one extra wound, if you're lucky? You would be better off dropping them and Daemonic Strength and taking just a Darkblade - strength six is all you really need.

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numberofthebeastxxx

Discussion Starter · #3 · Feb 2, 2006

Pardon me. Thats my army builder. Drop the MoCU from the 2nd. Now he's legal. What I meant by the invulnerables was I find that SM players like to run a chaplain with an assault squad or something to that effect. In one RTT there was one with the assault squad, and in another army he ran with a bike squad. The 4+ rosarius is annoying.

Oh, and the 1st lord ha had great luck tearing up some termie squads actually. I would never charge a big squad, but he's taken out 4 guys (out of 5) and of course the one left didn't kill him, so the preceding round finished him. Plus, he is great against those damn rune armoured eldar. I usually run the 1st guy as you can prob tell...

Any other thoughts?

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Dodge

· #4 · Feb 2, 2006

Caluin said:
What models do you fear having an Invulnerable save? The only thing I can really think of is the occasional IC, which you shouldn't be targeting anyways, and Terminators, which if you're attacking them with your Lord, you deserve to lose him to a hail of Powerfists.

Though, it looks like #2 is illegal, so #1 wins by default. Remember that when you have a Mark of the Gods then you may only have one Veteran Skill, unless your legion allows more.

Why the Lightning Claws anyways? You wound on a 2+ against most basic troops on the Charge anyways, so what does that expensive pair of Claws net you? Maybe one extra wound, if you're lucky? You would be better off dropping them and Daemonic Strength and taking just a Darkblade - strength six is all you really need.

Does that mean Raptors with MoCu, infiltrate and furious charge are illegal? And with a lieutenant?

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shoottokill

· #5 · Feb 2, 2006

Dodge said:
Does that mean Raptors with MoCu, infiltrate and furious charge are illegal? And with a lieutenant?

Yup.

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numberofthebeastxxx

Discussion Starter · #6 · Feb 2, 2006

Dodge said:
Does that mean Raptors with MoCu, infiltrate and furious charge are illegal? And with a lieutenant?

As stated. Yep. Any unit with a mark can only take one vet. skill. Thats why my raptor squads have no mark. Even tho it does happen, it's rare that I'll fail a Ld test on LD 10.

More on topic...

Any one else have thoughts on my lords?

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Caluin

· #7 · Feb 2, 2006

numberofthebeastxxx said:
Any one else have thoughts on my lords?

Well, I'm not a fan of the Dreadaxe in the first place. Dark Blade is a bit more consistent for me, since even though they still recieve their Invulnerable save, they only need to fail it once to die.

Though, I'm still leaning towards the second Lord. Simply because the sooner he reaches combat, the sooner he starts making back his points. While the Statured Prince might be more effective, the non-Statured is a threat that your opponent must deal with on the first turn, which buys the rest of your army some time to advance.

However, if you routinely find yourself with your Lord stuck in combat with models with Invulnerable saves, you might just want to go with the Stature/Dreadaxe combo. I myself never fight that many, so it's never been an issue for me.

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Soviet_Tau_Commander

· #8 · Feb 2, 2006

If you drop the MoCU from #2 he's still won't be leagle. If you are using the NL rules then every single model must have MoCU.

On a side note: I don't think you should be able to use NL rules for a non-NL army.

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Caluin

· #9 · Feb 2, 2006

Soviet_Tau_Commander said:
If you drop the MoCU from #2 he's still won't be leagle. If you are using the NL rules then every single model must have MoCU.

Huh? Where'd you come up with that? That's not right at all. Can you cite a reference for that? In fact, it's unfluffy to even have Marked unit in a Night Lords army, but that's the only way you'll be able to summon Furies.

Soviet_Tau_Commander said:
On a side note: I don't think you should be able to use NL rules for a non-NL army.

Why? So long as he conforms to the restrictions of the Night Lords, what does it matter how he paints and names his army?

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Tunisia

· #10 · Feb 2, 2006

The CCW on the first lord may as well be replaced with a pistol- they're only a couple of points more, and would make their points back just by evening the probability...

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Soviet_Tau_Commander

· #11 · Feb 2, 2006

Caluin said:
Huh? Where'd you come up with that? That's not right at all. Can you cite a reference for that? In fact, it's unfluffy to even have Marked unit in a Night Lords army, but that's the only way you'll be able to summon Furies.

I don't have my codex on me but I remember that all the undivided lists (AL, IW, NL, WB) need every model to have the MoCU. That's one of the restrictions.

Why? So long as he conforms to the restrictions of the Night Lords, what does it matter how he paints and names his army?

Because that would be like me using Blood Angel special rules for a Marine Chapter I called the "Fluffy Sheep" that have nothing to do with the Blood Angels other then they conform to the restictions in the Blood Angels codex. I just think it's stupid. If you want to play a list using Night Lord rules, or World Eaters rules, or Blood Angels rules, or Dark Angels rules, etc. then play those armies. Otherwise suck it up and play vanila codex armies. Of course that's just my humble oppinion. Feel free to dissagree with it if you like.

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Caluin

· #12 · Feb 2, 2006

Soviet_Tau_Commander said:
I don't have my codex on me but I remember that all the undivided lists (AL, IW, NL, WB) need every model to have the MoCU. That's one of the restrictions.

The four Undivided Legions only restrict you to taking the Mark of Chaos Undivided - they don't force you. While it's true that they may not take any of the other four Marks at all, they're not forced into taking the MoCU if they don't want to.

Tunisia said:
The CCW on the first lord may as well be replaced with a pistol- they're only a couple of points more, and would make their points back just by evening the probability...

Statured Princes can't wield Bolt Pistols. Though, you do have a point - put a Bolt Pistol on the second Lord. While it doesn't help him any in Close Combat, it allows him an AP5 shot just before charging.

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numberofthebeastxxx

Discussion Starter · #13 · Feb 2, 2006

Soviet_Tau_Commander, thats the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard. 1st off, your wrong, NL do not have to take the mark. No where in the entire codex or FAQ does it say you must take any mark. In fact in the armies you mentioned says the only mark they can or may take is the MoCU. That's hardly a requirement. If you were right I guess all those judges and list moderators at my RTT's were wrong right? That's the whole point of the rule that unmarked units can have more than 1 vet skill.

Secondly, your opinion on using rules for your own army is ludicrous. If it was your way there would be no original armies what so ever. If it was that way then no one could make up there own legion. And all the non-vanilla armies that they even list in the codex (red corsairs, steel cobras, the violators, warp ghosts, sons of malice, etc. etc. Keep in mind some of these armies are in novels and are published in WD) cannot be used according to you. Since they would be using black legion rules or whatever. All theme armies would be abolished (including that sweet Adeptus Mechanicus army in a recent WD using LaTD rules). So, are GW, WD, and every creative player in history stupid? They should just suck it up?

I think not.

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The Mad Hatter

· #14 · Feb 2, 2006

Try this for a lord:

Speed, Darkblade, Aura, Mutation, Bolt Pistol, Frags, Infiltrate. (122 points)

Fairly cheap and still swings with 5 str 6 attacks base. Spend your remaining 70 points on 5 marines or a cheap Lt.

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