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Banned
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4,252 Posts
Not like my opinion counts for a lot, but here's my 2 cents anyways:

The Mods/Admins have power to delete what they see fit. LO isn't a democracy. Stonehambey didn't like the posts- he can delete them if he wants.

That said, the posts (the ones I remember anyways) were made by established and respected members of the community, and I think deleting the posts seems a little extreme, as they weren't intended to cause conflict etc (that I know of). From what I recall they were pretty respectful, and were simply voicing an opinion.

Make of this post what you want, I'm just stating my stance on the matter.

-AFG//
 

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Advocatus Diaboli
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4,571 Posts
Probably to keep it an entirely informative post, particularly as it is now a sticky.

Clean stickies are better than dirty stickies.
 

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Treadhead with a Chainaxe
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1,805 Posts
I'm aware that some people might have some issues with me being appointed operator of the chat. I'm a reasonable person and I can live with that. What confuses me about it though is that people would rather boycott the chat and talk bad about me behind my back rather than bringing their issues with me to my face.

I had a talk with Daemonette today, though I belive she's also known as Pooka and while it's been enlightening, I won't hold back when I say that you're all being a bit silly. I'm going to quote some of our conversation here, while adding in my own thoughts to comment.

[11:51:57] <Daemonette> well, the transfer of chats and the dubious mods have killed the chat
[11:52:17] <@Kaiser-> Yes, blame the mods.
[11:52:50] <Daemonette> is it wrong to blame mods who are the cause?
[11:52:57] <@Kaiser-> Because I can only assume that I'm the dubious mod?
[11:53:11] <Daemonette> indeed

In afterthought, dubious mods is plural form so I'm curious to who else it is that's dubious.
Either way, apparently, it's all me and unknown mod's fault that chat activity has dropped.

[11:54:04] <Daemonette> and I've been whispers and has msn messages saying that people have left the chat because of your appointment

As arrogant as this might sound, I consider this their loss. If they'd rather leave than get to know me then they're free to do so, though I think you should ask yourselves what's the worst thing that could happend? Lets say I go on a mad rampage and abuse my powers, the other ops would step in and I wouldn't get to keep my op status. You could also stop and ask yourselves why I'm now an operator and none of the other operators are complaining, but infact, several have said that they support my appointment.

Stonehambey told me that Karmoon has no issues with me being made an Op, Stoney himself was the one who made me one and I know Arklite supports me aswell.

11:56:31] <Daemonette> because they are annoyed that a non-regular was appointed, and they don't like your personality?
[11:56:49] <Daemonette> well maybe most other people don't say it to your face
[11:57:04] <Daemonette> most people are frightened of ops
[11:57:07] <@Kaiser-> Ask them to do that the next time please.
[11:57:17] <@Kaiser-> I'm surprisingly tolerant to critique.
[11:57:47] <@Kaiser-> I can promise you that I'm not going to do anything against anyone who comes to be in person.
[11:58:16] <@Kaiser-> But I find it amusing that people already think they know me well enough to judge my personality.
[11:58:31] <@Kaiser-> Accually, it's a bit more than amusing, but I can't come up with a better word for it.
[11:58:45] <@Kaiser-> But then again, as far as I'm concerned, issues not brought to my face don't exist.

A non regular to the flash applet, but long time veteran of chats predating that one.
Don't like my personality? I wonder how long it took 'they' to judge me. I haven't been around for long so I can only assume that some people are quick to judge.

Frightened of ops? That's pure and utter bollocks. The worst thing I could do is to kick you out of the channel and block users from your adress to enter... but wait, as an operator, I have responsibilities - I can't just do that without good reason because then I'd prove myself unfit as an operator.

And again, if you don't like me, I can live with that, but it irks me that people would rather bring up their issues with me to others rather than confronting me about it.

[11:58:48] <*****> what bugs me is that nobody exept a few persons even knew you and you became a mod

EDIT:

[13:35:37] <*****> ...i dont want to be quoted
[13:35:39] <*****> edit it
[13:38:16] <@Kaiser-> Ah, so you're another of those who won't stand for your words?
[13:40:51] <*****> i definetely stand for my words,i just don't enjoy being quoted without my permission
[13:40:54] <*****> sry
[13:41:14] <@Kaiser-> Fair enough.
[13:41:28] <@Kaiser-> Might I have permission to quote the text?
[13:42:01] <*****> nah
[13:42:23] <@Kaiser-> And why not?
[13:42:40] <*****> cause i dont want to?

I do appreciate others giving their input, but I'm afraid that anonymous is wrong here. More than a few people know me. I've met all the LO chatters who where at the last LO meetup and I've been chatting with others for years. Sure, there is a clique of chatters who I haven't been talking too, but in time, I hope to get to know each and every one of you. We're all here because we share a common interest and that'll always be a good way to start up a conversation with someone you might not know.

I'm more known to the veterans of LOchat than to the newcommers, I've been around for years, just not in the abominable flash applet that the chat moved too. But the chatapplet is only a minority of lochat's existance. We've been on IRC for years before that, under other names, under the same name but despite that, most of the regulars there have been the same.

I'd like to thank Daemonette for comming to me with this and I do respect her opinion and her desicion to talk to me about it.

[12:00:21] <Daemonette> but I'm done with failchat today
[12:00:23] * Daemonette ([email protected]) has left #lochat

Constructive critisism is appreciated. Shit like this is not.
 

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Bearded Ninja
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2,678 Posts
I for one can say that I am VERY disappointed in the chat membership for this. Since WHEN has time spent on the chat had to do with anything in regards to who becomes a mod? I can tell you right now that it has NEVER been the case.

The moderatii is based on personality, friendly nature and the ability to enforce the rules. Now because some members wish to get prissy when we appoint a moderator who i can personally vouch for as a cool guy, a veteran of L-O and a VETERAN CHAT MEMBER.

yes, you read correctly. Kaiser predates ALL OF YOU! He was a chat operator BEFORE YOU STARTED CHATTING.

Now surely if we ARE using time spent as a means to decide who does and doesn't mod on L-O chat then Kaiser is qualified anyways.

If any members do have issue with this they are free to post here and say it. Skulking in the shadows and boycotting the chat just because you have an issue with it achieves nothing but making the chat slightly emptier.

Surely such people could explain their problems? Or do they know deep down inside that they are infact wrong but don't want to admit it. :sinister:

and something i would like to make very clear; unwarrented attacks on chat members, be it regular chatters or moderators will not be tollerated regardless of who it is and what they are.

good day - Arklite
 

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Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?
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2,642 Posts
First off, Rork has it dead on - a clean sticky is a good sticky. Stoney deleted one of his own posts too, so the intent here seems clear. No opinions are being de-valued.

Second, regarding the promotion of Kaiser, I think folks are being just plain silly about all of this, and behavior is trending toward childish. If I may quote our own FAQ:

How to Become a Moderator said:
Don't call us, we'll call you...
We don't advertise for new positions on LO. We handpick the members we feel will fit the bill best. Our hard working staff have a good feel for the different members of their areas and will notice the ones that stand out as good moderator material. When we feel that a new moderator is needed in an area, we ask the mods most familiar with the area in need, we get a few names, we check them out, and we make a decision.
This clearly extends to chat ops too, since they serve a similar purpose as our forum mods in a different area. If you disagree with a promotion, you are entitled to voice your opinion. However, this pouting, blacklisting, and backstabbing is complete nonsense. The next time those of you engaged in this petty protest wonder why you weren't made a moderator, please remember how you chose to behave in this situation.

Being a mod requires equal parts intelligence, patience, fairness, assertiveness, and loyalty to the community. Opting to spitefully conspire against a chat op because of your own personal bitterness shows absolutely none of the above.
 

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Registered
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105 Posts
Well first off I must say I am a bit annoyed at the comments I made being selectively quoted on the public forums, but I made them in the main chat and didn't mention NOT wanting to be quoted so I guess I am open to attack for my comments.

I maintain that others have messaged me with thier opinions on Kaiser but as I don't want to give away names and have no way to prove this I will state only my own opinions.

First of all, many members of lochat who I most liked no longer visit the chat room now it is IRC hosted.

Secondly, the chat in general is far less populated than it was before.

Third, I do have issues with Kaiser's personality irrespective of him being made a mod.

For these reasons I will be visiting the chat far less than I have in the past. These factors will also not change significantly whether I visit or not.
 

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Bearded Ninja
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2,678 Posts
Third, I do have issues with Kaiser's personality irrespective of him being made a mod.

feel free to list these if you will. i can compare them to the chat logs to confirm any woes that you do have.
 

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Treadhead with a Chainaxe
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1,805 Posts
Well first off I must say I am a bit annoyed at the comments I made being selectively quoted on the public forums, but I made them in the main chat and didn't mention NOT wanting to be quoted so I guess I am open to attack for my comments.
I was not aware that I needed anyone's permission to quote them, especially things spoken into a public channel. In addition, this forum isn't public as only people who're a member of the LO Chat Usergroup can see it - In fact, the very same people you where adressing in the channel earlier.

As for being selectively quoted, I could provide the entire log of what transpired if you'd prefer that, reason why I didn't is because I felt it would become uneccessarily long since not all of what was being said was relevant.

You say you have issues with my personality, I'm hard pressed to think that you know me well enough to judge me already - especially when all you've been nothing but hostile against me ever since you learned what the @ sign before my name meant.

Ah well, enough of this. If there's any personal issue you'd like to clear up, you're free to contact me about it. I'm not holding any grudges here, I'm merely curious as to why I'm the bad guy here. ^^
 

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Advocatus Diaboli
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4,571 Posts
Wow...isn't this a car wreck of a thread?

I'm speaking here as an owner of a chatroom affiliated to a website - Operators are still just chatters. Yes, they have powers but most of the time (almost certainly pushing all of the time) they have no need to use them.

Unless a single individual is abusing their power (which should be reported to a higher power), you should be able to rub along. And yes, I'm qualified on that matter since my own chatroom was founded in response to another Chat Owner completely losing the plot with their power (he wasn't overly liked by some, but we stuck around 'til that point).

If you don't like Kaiser, don't talk to him. It's not like he's the sort of guy who comes rushing up to you like an over-enthusiastic puppy. There's even the /ignore function if you're that put out.

But Kaiser isn't a bad guy (he inhabits my chat too), so I'd say get over yourselves.
 

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I'm back >.>
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2,233 Posts
Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Just one question how did this thread end on how people don't like Kaiser? I was just asking why the input was deleted.

Now, I'm just passing on peoples views here, so don't shoot me :D

The thing, a lot of chatters find it unfair that a "non-regular" mainly because you were never around on the other chats has been appointed opship just about a wek after joining the lochat channel.

ANd also, quite a few of the old regulars don't come on at all now, as they either don't want to use IRC or can't use the java or even get "permission denied" from the ajax one which has now been removed. ANd I have hardly seen one new member lately sign into the chat.

Fix the chat and make it easy to access, eg use an Ajax room as these run on all PCs, and bring back the original mods.
 

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Advocatus Diaboli
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4,571 Posts
The thing, a lot of chatters find it unfair that a "non-regular" mainly because you were never around on the other chats has been appointed opship just about a wek after joining the lochat channel.
So there's a queue...? Come on, it's a chat room. That someone who's been a regular on the site for a long time (Are the chat and forum that separate? Not really) is appointed to being an op shouldn't get people up in arms.
 

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Registered
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I deleted the posts cos I get a power trip from deleting other people's posts.

Pickle said:
Fix the chat and make it easy to access, eg use an Ajax room as these run on all PCs, and bring back the original mods.
There is no old mod who uses the chat who has lost their mod status, so don't make it out that people have or that we have had a complete re-haul, cos that's total BS.

The reason the chat changes so much is because BH actually listens to all your complaints and tries to fix it so that it works for everyone.

[13:35:37] <*****> ...i dont want to be quoted
[13:35:39] <*****> edit it
[13:38:16] <@Kaiser-> Ah, so you're another of those who won't stand for your words?
[13:40:51] <*****> i definetely stand for my words,i just don't enjoy being quoted without my permission
[13:40:54] <*****> sry
[13:41:14] <@Kaiser-> Fair enough.
[13:41:28] <@Kaiser-> Might I have permission to quote the text?
[13:42:01] <*****> nah
[13:42:23] <@Kaiser-> And why not?
[13:42:40] <*****> cause i dont want to?
Lol, well not wanting to be quoted is hardly standing by your words Svalene.

Basically I'm getting sick and tired of a few individuals who are constantly belittling the chat. You have been warned.
 

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I'm back >.>
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2,233 Posts
Discussion Starter · #14 ·
Stoney, no need to get your knickers in a twist. Techniqually the room is a complete overhaul and many regulars were lost because of it. Blackhat has't listened to some peoples views, and just gone ahead with what he wants, now I know this is his site and he is in charge, but it doesn't help the userbase of the chat if it keeps switching etc.

EDIT - Also can this thread be locked, as it has now been derailed completely and isn't relating to original topic, Thanks.
 

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Banned
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4,252 Posts
tbh I have no problems with the current Op/Mod/insert-whatever-word team.

The problem I have with Chat is that it keeps changing. I was happy with the Gixaw chat (the downtime lasted no longer than a day or two, it looked great, and I found it to be the most practical Chat I've ever seen). This constant change is just extra features to install/download/whatever, more adjusting, and these new chat's aren't near as good imho.

Just my 2 cents on the matter.

-AFG//
 

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The Landlord
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5,750 Posts
your the only one whining Pickle. The chat is working now with the java client on the lochat site and dont come say java is not working on your computer

Now we have a chat with a good uptime and with this system it wont use much of the server resources either.

So you can choose between a web based chat with a lot of downtime or the irc chat with alot of uptime. You want to chat right, then you need uptime and thats what you get now!
 

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I'm back >.>
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2,233 Posts
Discussion Starter · #19 · (Edited)
Blackhat, I am not the only one whining, didn't you read Pookas post and AFG's post and the multitude of posts in the LO CHat Problem thread, I am just passing on views of other people, my only concern personally is how much chat is changing and how we are losing members because of it. If you don't want to deal to this, that is fine, but no need to attack me.

I have passed peoples critism ect to Kaiser yesterday and Karmoon multiple times, you can ask Karmoon how many times I have to pass on info to him.
 
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