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Well i went to the GW store the other day and all i heard was, eldar suck man they need the update because they suck so much, if they were good theyd suck anyway, thats how much they suck. But my good friend recently bought their codex and if used propely i think they could be quite awesome. I mean an eldar army is like an everything has a purpose army but if it isnt used in that way your screwed army. I think they seem really cool personally so why do most people hate them and think they need the update the most? as an ork player i think that orks need the update the most. Or mabye well have revised codex black templars again...just because they can, dark angels, alien hunters, eldar them mabye black templars again, then orks (no specific order) well anyway i got off topic. Im just saying that eldar really dont suck they seem great on paper, dark reapers are like marine rapers and banshees buh bye anything that isnt a horde and scorpions are only 16 point monsters! They are awesome they seem, so why does everyone hate them?
 

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no one who's played against a competent eldar player can say they suck, similarly anyone who's competant and plays eldar can't say they suck.

the problem is that half of the eldar codex doesn't work, fire prisms and shining spears are the biggest examples of truly rubbish units in the eldar codex but eldar have a lot of strengths, they have resilient units in the falcon and wraithlord, they have devestating firepower with starcannons etc and they hae great speed. i'm going to say that whilst eldar do quite desperatly need an update for some of the worst units, some of their units are overpowered (we've all seen the ulthwe seer council of doom tourney list) and need rebalancing. nevertheless they are still one of the best armies around.
 

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Because they're dumb.


...no, really. Dumb as a freaking bowling ball.



Okay, that's not ENTIRELY accurate. The reason people say Eldar needs a revamp badly is, well, half the book has stuff that's horrifically out of date, redundant or just plain ass. Shining spear, for example. Sounds like a neat idea...REALLY fast moving cavalry charge, with a brightlance that hits on 2+! Then you take into account that for their points you could get at least double their number of banshees and you begin to see why next to no one ever fields them. Example 2, Fire Prism. This would be a spectular deal...if it had BS4. considering it's a one shot gun with no indirect fire ability, and it hits 50% of the time (not taking into account that you're ALSO only getting 50% of you partials rolls) it becomes clear why nobody uses one for long. Swooping hawks have been reduced to nothing more than either anti-IG or exarch delivery system, and an expensive one at that. Jetbikes are too expensive for what they can do, War Walkers can be quite devastating but are barely less than an INFINITELY superior and much more resilient Wraithlord, Reapers are heavy bolter and pie-plate bait (4+ save + very small numbers = squad go byebye on turn 2) half of the vehicle upgrades are garbage, Eldritch Storm is a joke and Dire Avengers serve no discernable purpose. Sure, the REST of the list is good, but when you take into account all the stuff that ISN'T you can see how badly the whole things needs some balance. The only reason they've left it this long is Eldar can still compete because of the different craftworlds. There is variety in the army lists people play only because the craftworlds themselves each have at least 2 ways to play them, and they all CAN work (some more consistently than others). Ultimately though, it's just a big jumbled mess that needs to be cleaned up.

As to people HATING Eldar...those are the dumb ones. I mean really, they're the reason I stuck with 40k so long. The closest I get to hating any of the races is Marines, and that's just because I'm so bloody BORED with them. Talk about overkill.
 

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eldar can still be a very effective force based on the few viable choices in the codex and craftworlds.

here are some units that are still very effective:
-vanilla:
warp spiders
falcons
vypers
wraithlords
guardian starcannon squads
scorpions
avatar
farseer
-alaitoc:
pathfinders and rangers
-ulthwe
seer council
black guardians.

as these are easily the most effective you can see why a lot of tournament lists look the same.
 

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People say that Eldar suck because they haven't played against an experienced Eldar player yet. That's why I say Necrons suck, I have yet to play against a Necron vet... :sleep:

Besides, we have a lot of sucky units. But then, it's just up to us not to use them...
 

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Woah. If eldar suck now.

Imagine how strong they would be ... in the next vamp O.O.

Oh snap...

haha I pwn with my eldar, where do you live so I can pwn these people of yours?
 

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SandwichBoy said:
Because they're dumb.


...no, really. Dumb as a freaking bowling ball.



Okay, that's not ENTIRELY accurate. The reason people say Eldar needs a revamp badly is, well, half the book has stuff that's horrifically out of date, redundant or just plain ass. Shining spear, for example. Sounds like a neat idea...REALLY fast moving cavalry charge, with a brightlance that hits on 2+! Then you take into account that for their points you could get at least double their number of banshees and you begin to see why next to no one ever fields them. Example 2, Fire Prism. This would be a spectular deal...if it had BS4. considering it's a one shot gun with no indirect fire ability, and it hits 50% of the time (not taking into account that you're ALSO only getting 50% of you partials rolls) it becomes clear why nobody uses one for long. Swooping hawks have been reduced to nothing more than either anti-IG or exarch delivery system, and an expensive one at that. Jetbikes are too expensive for what they can do, War Walkers can be quite devastating but are barely less than an INFINITELY superior and much more resilient Wraithlord, Reapers are heavy bolter and pie-plate bait (4+ save + very small numbers = squad go byebye on turn 2) half of the vehicle upgrades are garbage, Eldritch Storm is a joke and Dire Avengers serve no discernable purpose. Sure, the REST of the list is good, but when you take into account all the stuff that ISN'T you can see how badly the whole things needs some balance. The only reason they've left it this long is Eldar can still compete because of the different craftworlds. There is variety in the army lists people play only because the craftworlds themselves each have at least 2 ways to play them, and they all CAN work (some more consistently than others). Ultimately though, it's just a big jumbled mess that needs to be cleaned up.

As to people HATING Eldar...those are the dumb ones. I mean really, they're the reason I stuck with 40k so long. The closest I get to hating any of the races is Marines, and that's just because I'm so bloody BORED with them. Talk about overkill.
a) that is pretty close to flaming, regardless of how much is true... i, however, have some objections...

Reapers are heavy bolter and pie-plate bait (4+ save + very small numbers = squad go byebye on turn 2)
your reapers are in HB range by turn two??? and pie-plate bait shouldn't matter, that's why GW made cover ahem ahem

Swooping hawks have been reduced to nothing more than either anti-IG or exarch delivery system, and an expensive one at that.
swooping hawks are great against most hord armors, esp. ones with crappy saves, so axctually orks seem better targets.... but they can be good against anything short of sms, minus the exarch...

and which of the vehicle upgrades suck i can't think of any... maybe vectored engines...
 

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Drills baby.
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Eldar don't suck if you play them well, but in the hands of a newbie thay are doomed to lose (most of the times).

Victor said:
That's why I say Necrons suck, I have yet to play against a Necron vet.
The you have never played against Sebastian Larsson. Experienced Necron-player/power gamer that have scored good at all the GTs he have played in (every year he gets closer to 1st place) and I can tell you that his 1500pts Necron army of Doom is 1 of the hardest armies I have ever played against.
 

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farseer_seele said:
your reapers are in HB range by turn two??? and pie-plate bait shouldn't matter, that's why GW made cover ahem ahem
One 80pt land speeder will make a mockery of your 200pt squad very quickly. Even if the marines take two they are ahead on the deal (You aren't making that many cover saves:O).
 

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farseer_seele said:
your reapers are in HB range by turn two??? and pie-plate bait shouldn't matter, that's why GW made cover ahem ahem
honestly i have to disagree with you. marine heavy bolters often move 12" before they fire... stupid landspeeders. and as most people set up around 24-32" apart then i can see how they can be in range, especially as landspeeders are deployed last and dark reapers go down first or second depending on if they're heavy or troops.
and even the best standard 4+ cover isn't going to save them when they're averaging 47 points a wound (for 5 man + exarch squad) they're just way too expensive and just by taking them you giva away quite a horrific number of VP's.

farseer_seele said:
swooping hawks are great against most hord armors, esp. ones with crappy saves, so axctually orks seem better targets.... but they can be good against anything short of sms, minus the exarch...

and which of the vehicle upgrades suck i can't think of any... maybe vectored engines...
where i come from we play "take all comers" style lists where you don't change your list to play any specific oponent (except armoured companies)
therefore hawks are definately out. if they can't take MEQ's on then they're useless in that environment; more specifically in a tourney environment too.

thats what i think is a big problem with eldar being an army of specialists is. when i used to play beil-tan i first attempted to make a true take all comers list by making sure i could combat every possible enemy: i had anti horde, AT, anti MEQ. then slowly as i played more and more marines, chaos, DH i started to cut away everything that couldn't take on marines well enough. so i had some generalists like scorpions, spiders and wraithlords that did well against everything then some anti meq's like banshees and fire dragons. leaving nothing dedicated to purely dealing with hordes.

Da Mighty Camel said:
The you have never played against Sebastian Larsson. Experienced Necron-player/power gamer that have scored good at all the GTs he have played in (every year he gets closer to 1st place) and I can tell you that his 1500pts Necron army of Doom is 1 of the hardest armies I have ever played against.
really? what was his army like? i know the army wouldn't be all that contributed to his winning but i'm just curious
 

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Eldar are a very strange army right now, some of their stuff is a good way above the useability threshold, while other bits are well below it.

I wouldn't say eldar suck.. I've seen an eldar player go through 3 times his points in a massive game we were playing (some of those points were mine too, damn lucky farseer mindwarring my keeper of secrets!) True, his opponents were making a lot of mistakes, but his army was still lethal.
 

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TzarNikolai said:
really? what was his army like? i know the army wouldn't be all that contributed to his winning but i'm just curious
Been a while since I last played him, but if i remeber correctly he had 40+ warriors, 10 Immortals, 6 or something Destroyers, 8 or so pariahs (so the army is more unique), a lord and some Heavy Destroyers.
 

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I think that eldar suck big time!

*takes cover*

No really, I stopped playing eldar because I hate more than half of the units in the codex, because they are either brain farts or horribly outdated. It is virtually impossible for me to put together an eldar list without having to take a fair bit of units that I simply hate, either because they conflict with the fluff (farseers ect... they should be the best psykers around, but the rules reduces them to puny pcycic caddies instead), have horrible models (war walkers, wraithlords ect...), or are made useless by a game designer whos not worth his salt (shining spears, dire avengers, jetbikes ect.). Personally, I wont touch another eldar model untill the race is totally re-vamped, and then only if GW does the job a thousand times better than they did with the current codex.
 

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Da Mighty Camel said:
The you have never played against Sebastian Larsson. Experienced Necron-player/power gamer that have scored good at all the GTs he have played in (every year he gets closer to 1st place) and I can tell you that his 1500pts Necron army of Doom is 1 of the hardest armies I have ever played against.
I hope I will one day then, there is a Necron player at the next Rogue Trader tournament I'm competing in though... with a little luck I'll match up against him. Or maybe not, since my Marines are vehicle heavy :(

You Eskilstuna guys should come to Stockholm to a RTT sometime, really.
 

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I our last 4 Rogue trader tourneys, A Necron or Eldar player has won. Two different Eldar armies, and one very good Necron army. One of the Eldar armies had three Wraithlords though......

GW need to quickly come out with a new Eldar 'Dex, there are some plain dumb units. That being said, Eldar can be one of the hardest armies to face at the hands of a good General.
 

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besides all those reasons

If you play within the rules and select models that will make you win, you are branded as cheesy anyway. They have balance problems just like the DE.
 

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Farseer Sareld said:
I
No really, I stopped playing eldar because I hate more than half of the units in the codex, because they are either brain farts or horribly outdated. It is virtually impossible for me to put together an eldar list without having to take a fair bit of units that I simply hate, either because they conflict with the fluff (farseers ect... they should be the best psykers around, but the rules reduces them to puny pcycic caddies instead), have horrible models (war walkers, wraithlords ect...), or are made useless by a game designer whos not worth his salt (shining spears, dire avengers, jetbikes ect.). Personally, I wont touch another eldar model untill the race is totally re-vamped, and then only if GW does the job a thousand times better than they did with the current codex.
I dont see any fluff that conflicts with farseers. Even the warrior runned Biel Tan has farseers. >.>. The spells are ok, they are more supportive, though I would agree on the fact that they are not powerful as they say they are, atleast in this edition.

Wraithlord is not a horrible model, it is so easy to make it look good. You just have to adjust some body parts to make look more than the monotonous look. Though vamp will fix those models.

Dire avengers have mixed discussion, though I'd have to agree, tehy are not strong for what they are suppose to be.

Well your missing out on some good stuff still.. I can handle eldar right now, and I say they are still a great force, maybe not all the craftworlds,,, but a revamp willl definetly make eldar pwn more.
 

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Viktor said:
I hope I will one day then, there is a Necron player at the next Rogue Trader tournament I'm competing in though... with a little luck I'll match up against him. Or maybe not, since my Marines are vehicle heavy :(

You Eskilstuna guys should come to Stockholm to a RTT sometime, really.

It might be him, or he will bring Alaitoc ranger force o' doom.
My friend (Andreas Lundin, SM player) is going Rouge Trader. Myself, well, I don't got a painted 1750pts army list. And besides I think it should only be 1500pts.
 
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