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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Alright, since he is in the DH codex...

Vindcare assassin has BS 5, 2+ to hit standard, WHY, oh why does his rifle have the same rules as a sniper rifle? A sniper rifle always hits on a 2+, regardless of who has it. A vindicare assassin can hit on a 2+, regardless of what he's shooting with. Can anyone else see the unused redundancy here?


Hes a friging assassin by trade, he costs alot, and HE SUCKS!! My scout snipers are more effective at killing specail characters then he is because of sheer numbers alone! and his specail ammo is WORTHLESS, except maybe using hellfire to take out specail weapons units instead of characters. odds are you'll waste the other two rounds when you roll to wound.

hell, his pistol is stronger then that big-ass rifle hes got.

Did i miss something that makers him not suck, lke can he move and fire? or, something besides those worthless specail ammo rounds, and the invulnerable save any self respecting sniper would never need, and the fearless stuff that almost never applies cause he is supposed to be ranged death incarnate but instaed hes just a pansy in a spandex suit with a BBgun.

Please someone tell me what i am overlooking that makes him worthwhile!
 

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If a vindicare assassin had anything resembling realistic capabilities he would dominate the battlefield in 40k, making the game unbalanced. Granted, this is what snipers do, but...

I think that his rifle should be much better but should only be able to be fired after a turn of doing completely nothing, to represent him setting up for the shot.
 

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I completly agree, people tend to exaggerate his abilities.

But as an example; in a six turn game, he can't kill more that 6 models with his rifle. But he does not suck, used correctly he can be much better than an average sniper. The Vindicare has his stealth suit, and he can choose what model he wants to target
 

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The vindicare assassin is really good against certain armies, especially ones that have negative consequences when certain things die. Examples: Tyranid Hive Hodes, Ork slavers (always funny watching the grots run after that happens!), eldar warlocks (really screws over wraithguard), Chaos daemonvessels (unstable greater daemons don't usually last too long), Imperial guard command characters, eldar support/heavy weapon gunners (this one really pisses people off!), and Tau Ethereals. I'm quite sure there are more things you could wreak havoc upon, but I think I have probably made my point. The vindicare doesn't fit into the usual "worth taking if it can kill its points in enemy models" but rather "how many problems can I cause my enemy so he/she spends way too much time and effort going after the assassin?" If you want a regular old kick the crap out of things assassin, use the eversor. The culexus, vindicare, and callidus assassins require much more thought to use effectively but can be much more damaging to your opponent's battle plan. The vindicare is actually my favorite of the bunch with the culexus coming in a close second. :ph34r:
 

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I also forgot to mention that the vindicare's rifle is WAY better than a regular sniper rifle seeing as how it's AP2 rather than no AP at all.
 

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I don't want to speak for rtsposer, but I'm going to guess one of the big parts about the Vindicare that makes it kind of suck is that if it shoots something there is, at best, slightly below a 50/50 chance it will go down. Sure, it can pick off individual models, but not with the lethality that a real sniper can pull off and that would be really cool, but a little over powering (a Vindicare cannot achieve the traditional sniper's principal of one shot, one kill).
 

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a Vindicare cannot achieve the traditional sniper's principal of one shot, one kill
While this is true, the vindicare gets alot more opportunities to shoot than a modern day sniper does. Hence the one in "one shot one kill". I just re-read the assassins rules and I think I am going to start using an assassin with my marines, just because nobody I play with is in any way prepared for that kind of disruption. I think I'll probably use a vindicare about half of the time and a callidus the rest. I'm tempted to take a culexus against one of my friend's Ulthwe army, but that just reeks of cheese!! :D
 

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That's why I said he should have to take a complete turn of doing nothing before he can fire his rifle. One could assume he is getting set up, cleaning the barrel, etc. Then let him take a very lethal shot, say making him wound on a 2+ or 3+ and saying if he rolls a 6 to hit then the model is killed regardless of wounds (as long as all relevant saves are failed). Even perhaps bump the AP up to 3 just to balance it off a little more (though the small number of characters and troops who have access to 2+ armor saves makes that not as effective), and raise his point cost...by a lot!

I still agree he doesn't suck, but I just think he could be made into much more of an assassin type sniper by making him more lethal but limiting him to fewer shots. I don't know, I just think if an assassin sniper takes a shot at someone, unless they have great armor that saves them they should go down.

As for teh Culexus, I would say take him! That's not cheesy, that's what the Culexus is for! I mean, wouldn't the Officio Assassinorum dispatch a Culexus to deal with such a threat?
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
The reason most snipers only take one shot total is because they aren't manically suicidal, this doesn't apply to the vindicare. And on a real battle feild instead of a genuine assassination attempt, where you have targets all around you just begging to be shot, it should be like shooting fish in a barrel, and it is, except most of the time when you shoot a fish and hit it it dies, not so for his stupid rifle.


My point is, and always was, the assassin could have a BS:1 and still hit on a 2+ and wound on 4+, your paying for that BS:5 so you really ought to be able to fully capitalize on it by eliminating redundancy in place of increased lethality.

I mean, lets face it folks, when a PISTOL become more lethal then a heavy weapon rifle you know something is seriously wrong.
 

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I dont like the vindy either but his gun does has a 2 piercing and he can snipe out heavy weapons guys in squads and sergs and stuff :ph34r:
 

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The assassin is realy great, sniper rifle with AP 2, 3 different kinds of one use ammo, stealth suit, ect. He is great against taking down characters and bugs such as hive tyrants.
 

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:huh:
i think

the vindicare assassin, as well as the rest of the temples, represent a lone soldiers used for one purpose: assassination. being a follower of tactical dogma, an imperial player, the best course of action would be using each assassin only when he/she is absolutely needed for a specific reason. does one of your friends brag about a certain model that he heaps points on? keep the vindicare at a safe distance and use hellfire in round 1. follow with turbo-penetrater. with a good coordination, you can keep the assassin firing upon the subject into close combat rounds. perhaps a callidus supporting deep-striking units with her nasty brain fryer could quickly turn the tide of a mission where the guardsmen have many a plasma pointed at your termies. eversors work the same way.

hmm... the cullexus only comes out of the temple when the pointy-eared come to town. you know what i mean. :D

my point remains... assassins should be only used when needed for specific jobs. maybe thats why he sucks for you... you take him too much.


p.s. the concept of a callidus helping my termies with heavy flamers roast bugs makes me shiver.

http://www.games-workshop.com/40kuniverse/...sQAver2.DOC.pdf
 

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one of the vindicare's main strength is the ability to shoot anything any time for example the chaos lord with a retinue whos busy carving up your gaurdsmen in h2h just shoot him then and there.
 

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How about making the Exitus rifle an assault 1 weapon and keepin everything else as it is, maybe push the Ap to 3
(or maybe make it a long range Rapid fire weapon *twisted grin*)

About the BS. He also has a pistol 'ya know, so theres the benefit right there.
And you say all the special ammo is crap except Hellfire?
What?!
Lets say you load up a shield breaker in you nice shiny rifle and shoot a Terminator armored Chaos lord (or a Chaos lord with chaos armor and/or daemonic aura). That means he gets no invulnerable save, or a armor save for that matterThe Turbo penetrator is a nice follow up, or a last ditch attempt to take out a high wound model.

I'll admit he aint no 1337 h4x0r running around like in CS jumping and shooting and all that poo. But he's a realistic sniper considering what he's supposed to do...Assassinate.
You dont assassinate a whole army, you assassinate individuals. So mark someone for assassination and use him on that model/models.

Also dont make your sniper the screw which everything rests on. Make him an ace up your sleeve, a lemon in the wound a popcorn shell between the buttocks.
Thats the way to use the Assassin.

Question: It says the Assassin can target any model in range and within LoS regardless of targetting restrictions. Does this mean he can shoot into close combat? (cuz that would be cool...and sick)
 

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the vindicare assasin does not suck. i always use him to pick of the aspiring champions in my freinds world eaters army cause his champs are so good. But they are no match for the vindicares sniper rifle and his awesome aim.
 

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Are you mad???? the Vindicare rocks!! he is th eperfect monkey wrench for your oponant!! the being able to shoot at any model is insane! and how can you complane about hitting on a 2 wounding on a 4 and ap2???? no to mention giving him death world toxins!! he is pricy but in a higher point game so worth it.
 
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