[Canew]

It would have to be a huge book to do all three ordos justice. Not saying it isn't possible, but it would be tough. There's a good chance that something really cool will get overlooked if they try to do all three in one book, although I do think this is probably the route they will take.

Prepare to be "streamlined" or "simplified"

Not necessarily. There are some common elements, such as Inquisitorial Storm Troopers. Give them a boost somehow (new wargear, better stats, cheaper, whatever), and those are the first troops choice.

Then, have Grey Knights, Sisters, and Deathwatch Kill Teams in the "Elites" section, then, in the HQ section, have a canoness, grey knght hero, some equivalent for the DW (librarian?), and then an "Inquisitor" entry with sub-entries for specific types (OH, OM, OX).

Now here's the kicker: Make it so that ordo-specific HQs make the chamber militants "troops" choices in that army. So, for example, an OM inquisitor means Grey knights can count as troops AND Elites.

Granted, that's just troops and HQ, but that right there will allow current =I= players to pretty much reproduce the same lists they have now, aside from certain specific WH elites and fast attack choices. Now there, I admit there's a problem. GW's either going to have to create some new OM/OX counterparts to, say, seraphim, repentia, flagellants, etc., or cut some of those from the new 'dex. Probably both.

So yeah, some of the WH units may go bye-bye, but most of these are units that people have trouble making work now anyway. The CORE units, I predict, won't be going anywhere. If anything, they'll be easier to use, and some of the popular heavy support choices, such as the exorcists and land raiders, well, the developers would be fools to get rid of those

 

[IofRaw]

That's what I envisioned as well Canew. The issue with me is that I don't think this vision does do justice to the three armies. If I loose even one unit from my WH list in the new dex, I will be disappointed, whether it's a core unit or not. Chances are, I've already invested cash into a model to represent that unit, and if the rules for it are removed, my investment becomes a pretty paperweight, just like my beloved genestealer cult.

It's not the core units that give an army it's character, it's the options. From the existing WH dex, I created not one, but two very distinctive armies, which can work independantly, or combine when I'm fighting a really big battle. I was able to do that because there was so much to choose from. If they combine three armies in a single book, there won't be enough flexibility to build multiple distinctive variants of each of those armies- instead, there will be a fairly standard build for each of the three, and each of those standard builds will be seen as providing variety within the parent Inquisition army list.

But it goes even deeper than that. If you've seen some of my other posts, you know I'm a fluff junkie. When a new dex is released, what usually happens is that gw writes slightly different fluff from the previous version- maybe it's a different point of view, or an example of something from a different era in the army's history; they may even introduce a few new named characters. They rarely do it in such a way as to negate previous fluff; rather, they expand upon what has come before. In this way, the story gets deeper and the amount we know about our army increases. If they're trying to include fluff for three armies instead of one, the amount of fluff that each army gets will be smaller than it otherwise would have been.

When I play friendly games with friends, which is mostly what I play, I still use the chapter approved rules to represent my priests, because the current WH dex had less detail about the ecclesiarchy than the crazy little 8 page chapter approved article did. This allows me to field Confessors, Missionaries or Priests, rather than just the bland, homogenized basic priest offered in the WH dex. This exactly the kind of detail that will be sacrificed in the new dex. Fortunately, the rules of the game haven't changed much, so if I hate the new list, my crew will just let me keep playing the old one in the same way they let me play old school priests now.

Don't get me wrong, I too look forward to a new codex, even a combined one, because it will have something to offer, even if it's just a renewed level of interest and support for my army. But that doesn't mean I don't fear for the future I've the army I've come to love.

I keep putting links to this in my posts, but if you want to see what I mean about two distinctive armies from the same dex, check this out: The Witch Hunters of Escutcheon III

 

[ikbuh]

I also agree with Canew with the HQ options.

There will probably be two HQs per Ordo other then the Inquisitor the way I see it, then each will have it's own thing that it unlocks.

Witch Hunters:
Cannoness
Cardinal or Preist (to represent the Ecclesiarchy, as sisters don't always work for, Inquisitors)

Unlocking
Sisters of Battle, Dominions, Seraphim, and Exorcists (celestians would still be bodyguards)

Ordo Malleus:
Grandmaster
Brother-Captain

Unlocking
Grey Knights, GKTs, Landraiders, Dreads, and some sort of fast attack.

Ordo Xenos:
Librarian
Brother-Captain

Unlocking
Deathwatch and I have no clue watch else. I just hope it's not *insert generic SM garbage*

The universal things would still stay IE: Assassins and ISTs, but would also include things like flagellents, daemon hosts, and Penitent Engines because they could very well be universal and would give more options for radicals. Perhaps things like Death Cult Assassins could be taken as troops if you have a radical Inquisitor. Some things need a little tweaking to make them more usable (like Arcos NOT killing themselves), but could very well work.

If they are merging them, it will be a big codex, but look at the SM codex... that thing is HUGE...

 

[DogofWar1]

I can see them doing something where the HQ you choose determines what else can be troops.

Canoness begets SoBs as troops, a Brother Captain begets PAGKs as troops, and ISTs are always troops.

What will be interesting will be the way they handle allies. I play SM mostly, and allies are something I periodically use. It will be interesting how changes to allies rules affect what can be taken by the other marine codices and the IG codex.

 

[winginson]

If it is a combined dex I really, really want each militant to be able to be played as an army in its own right. I would really hate for GKs to be useless just because other options have been put in, so you don't have to take them, so they become overcosted and underused.

 

[Pheonix Lord]

To the point of will it be one dex then I say yes and no. I always look to the BgB for this as things usually appear in that before its released, such as the bastion and agies defense line. Also the Fortress of redemption was in planetstrike first.

So on that note we have 2 bad news and 1 good one.
The bad would be DH and WH codices being missed out on page 212 under collecting an army, even the DE codex is listed as well as DA and BT. Boo.
Secondly we completely missed out on fluff sections which each race received between pages 133 and 181, instead we got a foot note on pages 120 and 121 next to those well know armies in 40k the Adaptus Mechanicus and The Titan Legions (rolls eyes).

The only good news that I could see is that we (WH and DH that is) are listed as Forces of the Imperium twice. This is what I think will be our new path will be. In that though I can see us becoming merley 'additions' to the existing SM and IG armies. Le sigh, only time will tell.

PL

 

[IofRaw]

Forgive my ignorance but what is the BgB?

 

[Kabbala]

I believe he is refering to the Big Rule Book, BRB usually. As for mentioning the SOB/GK, you forgot to mention the two page spread of the "Forces of the Imperium" on plages 196-7.

 

[omegoku]

The inquisitor codii were never supposed to be so inquisitor centric. Its just that they happened to come out around the same time as the Inquisitor rule book.

I think they could do 2 things.
They could go retro (unlikely) and have 2 separate army lists in the one book. Like Angels of Death codex.
or they can combine both books into one big army list.

I don't see why they would need to leave out many of the units, they just need to put in exceptions to make sure your GKs can't steal your sisters rhinos!

I think one big book would be the smartest move, as long as you can make a GK only, SoB only. or Inquisitor only, or a combined force it will keep everyone happy.
As for allies, they will probably be dropped, restricted greatly or represented by generic marines/guard being units in the codex.

HQ
GK Master
SoB Cannoness
Inquisitor

Elites
GKTs
SoB Repenta
Assassins
Arco-Flagellants
Dreadnought

Troops
GKs
SoB
IST
Guard platoon
SM Tactical Squad

Fast Attack
Seraphim
GK Deep strikers

Heavy Support
Exorcist
Immolator
Penitent Engine
SoB Heavy weapon squad
Land Raider
GK heavy weapon squad

 

[Blood_Lord]

Now you are missing out on a bunch of units:

Daemonhosts
Celestians
Dominians

I presume you mean all LR variants available to GK's with LR.

 

[omegoku]

tbh I have not really looked at either book in a while so forgive me for forgetting some units.

Daemonhosts, Deathwatch kill team become elites

I thought dominions were the heavy weapon squads of SoB (4 special/heavy weapons) in the squad?

so include them as heavy instead of SoB heavy weapon squad, and make celestians Fast Attack.

Any Land raider the GK are allowed are available, maybe even allow a basic russ if you take inquisitor HQ, and guard platoon as troops

GK Mater unlocks non troops GK units, if you do not take a GK Master you can only take GK troops option, not the fancy stuff like dreads or terminators
likewise SoB Cannoness unlocks non troops SoB units
not only that, but taking these locks the radical stuff like daemonhosts.

The list could do with more radical stuff.

 

[winginson]

I like the idea of limiting what you are allowed to take, based on what HQ you have. I would like this:
A DH inquisitor allows PAGKs as Elites.
A DH inquisitor lord allows GKs.
A GK hero allows Dreadnoughts, Land Raiders, any other special stuff.

Also we should get a LR Redeemer with pimped-up anti-invunerable save flamestorm cannons. C'mon burning the heretics in fire is what the inquistion is all about...

 

[Blood_Lord]

I have to say that the Deathwatch should become their own entry, just like sob's and gk's.

Dominions are the FA special weapon squad, retributors are the HS heavy weapon squads. And celestians should stay elite, there's nothing that makes them FA...

The guard stuff seems a nice idea.

For the unlocking I think its better that they'd unlock the troops, as it seems more logical that they'd call in elite/more specialized troops. Not the bulks of armies...

But indeed, more radical stuff would be nice.

 

[IofRaw]

I'd like to see more from the deathwatch as well, and actually, the ordo xenos in general. From what I remember of the fluff (which is very little), deathwatch is made up of space marines from all of the other chapters.

In terms of xenos inquisitors, in the same way radical WH use psychic powers and radical dh use daemonhosts, xenos would use xeno tech; in inquisitor scale, Lady Jena Orechiel is armed with a shuriken catapult, although I'm not sure she's xenos. They may even have options to take alien henchmen- in an old White Dwarf, there was an awesome conversion of a xenos Inquisitor whose retinue included a Hrud, among others.

I'd love a Hrud model. The guy's conversion wasn't bad, but I'd like to see what GW would do with one. Jokaero would also be awesome.

I'm curious about what Xenos would have for Elites/ Fast Attack/ Heavy Support. A possible radical elites choice would be Ogryns with better gear than IG Ogryns- exoskeletal power armour rather than a fully enclosed suit maybe?

It's a shame they never got their own codex; a combined codex, even if well done, won't be able to provide the same level of artwork, photos and detailed background as a dedicated codex

 

[techmarine Rannon Zriker]

It's a shame they never got their own codex; a combined codex, even if well done, won't be able to provide the same level of artwork, photos and detailed background as a dedicated codex

Unless it was a huge mega codex that cost 80$

 

[toggle]

I was in games workshop at the weekend and picked up the Daemon Hunter codex.

While I was buying it he did mention that they are going to be placing Alien Hunters and the others into one book. Unsure how solid this information is, probably not much at all. However considering there are other people reporting the same kind of information from different sources it may just be true.

I really hope not however. It's just my luck to start a new army, spend £100's on models then x months later nice shiny new plastics come out and every person in the local club will start playing them.

 

[Darthvegeta800]

As long as I can still field a decent pure GK force i'll be happy...

 

[Ignis]

As long as I can still field a decent pure GK force i'll be happy...

I do agree, but I hope for more models, and therefore more ways to play with them...
I would be great to get some more possibilites.. just the GKs and the GKTs with LR(C) or Dreadnought isn´t really what I call lots of freedom when it comes to choosing!

 

[Darthvegeta800]

I do agree, but I hope for more models, and therefore more ways to play with them...
I would be great to get some more possibilites.. just the GKs and the GKTs with LR(C) or Dreadnought isn´t really what I call lots of freedom when it comes to choosing!

Agreed but worst case scenario is that a pure force is no longer possible or worse even less competitive.

 

[toggle]

The question is, if you are looking at buying a grey knight army are you best waiting till the new models/codex?